And, yes, you’re right that Jesus called out the disciples — since they were on their way to being religious leaders, I don’t think that that serves as a good counter-example, but you’re right that it was worthy of mention. Touche, if you’ll pardon my French.

Actually, I think my analogy was spot on as I’ve tacitly attested to with the examples above. But why argue? I have no doubt you are a Christian and a fine man.

As an invitation … since I’m guessing that not every visitor to the Chamber wants to read our conversation, why not throw a comment onto my blog somewhere, and we can either continue this discussion there or via e-mail if you’d rather.

I’m sure you’ll raise good kids. And I am glad that there are still people like you. I think you would find that I am not that different besides I have no use for formal church service anymore. Not after what I witnessed.

I admit I will give some thought to providing a better example and you are right. I don’t have to be so crass. Like I said, there is no one way to witness but there is only one truth. Being that I’ll soon be gone, it probably won’t be noticed. Touche’…

About works thru the church, I am reminded of what Luis Palau said, “The church is like manure. Pile it together and it stinks up the neighborhood; spread it out and it produces fertile crop.” Or something like that.

I had to paraphrase because I couldn’t remember the exact quote.

You take care and I’ll leave you alone. I just didn’t take kindly to your defense of the indefensible with reference to the Puke at his site. Personally, I feel that creep needs to be caned and I would be more than happy to carry it out.

P.S. – I am sorry for your loss. Though I can’t imagine the sorrow as I’ve never experienced anything of that magnitude, if you ever needed comfort and no one has ever mentioned it, there is a very small blurb in Job. When God provided Job with double of everything after his loss which God allowed, there was only one thing God didn’t double (his family). That small fact is often overlooked but incredibly important. And I am sure you recognize why…

Take care.

I’m not voting for Obama. I just called out Frank Schaeffer for endorsing Obama. There’s not a force on earth that could motivate me to vote for Obama. I, in fact, support Joe Schriner for President … and do so because he’s a man of faith who isn’t afraid to stand on it and apply it without compromise to his policies.

And, yes, you’re right that Jesus called out the disciples — since they were on their way to being religious leaders, I don’t think that that serves as a good counter-example, but you’re right that it was worthy of mention. Touche, if you’ll pardon my French.

It might be worth mentioning that my first remark to MJ in this thread (way back when I was thinking about being considerate about the original post … sorry, Chen!) was asking him why Mike Huckabee’s belief in Creationism threatened him.

Unless I’ve missed it, he didn’t answer.

Is there hypocrisy in my life? I’m sure that there is … given that I’m a fallen human. I’m not going to fall into the trap (whether you meant it as such or not … and I’m not accusing you of doing so) of denying that I’m a sinner wholly dependent on grace for salvation.

As for my works …well, … as I mentioned, I’m on my church’s worship team. I help lead and direct that team, which has recently included some meetings with the Elders about the nature of worship and our relationship with the Holy Spirit.

I’m a father of four, and we’re making sure that the three who lived to be born know the Truth and see it in our lives. In a practical, day-to-day way, I’m the one at work who doesn’t gawk at the cleaning lady, I’m the one who doesn’t laugh at the dirty jokes; and people know where I stand.

As an invitation … since I’m guessing that not every visitor to the Chamber wants to read our conversation, why not throw a comment onto my blog somewhere, and we can either continue this discussion there or via e-mail if you’d rather.

Just a thought.

One last thing. Christ did attack the disciples for their hypocrisy…and harshly.

Consider that in your judgement.

I prefer the approach of love, gentleness, self-control … you might recognize those as fruit of the Spirit.

Congratulations…surely your crown will have many stars. Mine might be a tin hoop but I’ll still have one. Paul did say there are many parts to the body. By the way, Christ attacked the hypocrites because of their legalisms without walking the walk. Why don’t you show me your works? You absolutely sure your persona doesn’t reflect a little hypocrisy sport?

As for personal witness … how many people do you suppose you might turn off with your online jackass personna, while professing to be a Christian? Even if you don’t, other people take what they see online seriously.

I suppose there’s a measure of truth to your statement which believe it or not, I’ve considered. Iron sharpens iron. Of course, you straddling the fence on virtually any issue of substance (online), either apparently too cowardly or too blind to confront evil (ala The Revolting example), isn’t much of a witness either. So perhaps we have the blind leading the blind.

Let’s just say if I were milquetoast when it came to scripture, your liberal theological teaching would leave me empty and remind me of the verse:

Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter…

It might help to remember Wickle, Christ came not to unite but to divide.

Cast that vote for Obama!

The only people that Jesus and John the Baptist attacked in anything like your style were the religious leadership, who should have known better. To those who had no way to know better, Jesus was quite loving in His approach.

Congratulations on the award. As a matter of fact, I do believe you. There are people who take on different roles in real life and online. So be it.

As for me, I’m a real person and the online Wickle is the same person who exists in real life … although most people don’t call me Wickle.

As for personal witness … how many people do you suppose you might turn off with your online jackass personna, while professing to be a Christian? Even if you don’t, other people take what they see online seriously.

I prefer the approach of love, gentleness, self-control … you might recognize those as fruit of the Spirit.

No problem about getting the state wrong … I had to check to see whether I’d hit it wrong. I started college in Rocky Mount, NC and used to have a brother in Raleigh. Come to think of it, I was born in Goldsboro (at Seymour Johnson AFB), and my grandmother still lives in Charlotte. I do love NC, though I don’t get there as often as I’d like.

Take care.

I know you find yourself terribly witty and bright. I don’t. I just wasted 10 minutes or so of my life explaining to the superior intellect, nerdy kid that “not being fit to judge” doesn’t mean I can’t discern right from wrong; or did you want me to equate myself to Jesus? What are you? About 16 years old?

The disciples were killed because of a defense of the faith Wickle; a strong defense of the faith. They didn’t behead people for bubbly conversation while speaking in love. These men were bold like you couldn’t believe and if you think I’m wrong, perhaps you would be best to reread Christ’s entrance into Jerusalem and the waving of palms which I hope you understand the significance…

Now, I’ll admit they didn’t use the put downs, cut downs, slaps across the head, virtual kicks to the balls that I do, but across a cable line, they didn’t have the disadvantage of being a million miles away either. And I am certainly not in their league either being a rank amateur.

You will have to forgive me if I don’t use this board as my own personal mission. It’s an out…nothing more.

From the previous post, I said exactly what I meant – Evangelism; not as you suggest Evangelicalism.

Sorry to get your state wrong. NH is a pretty country and I’ve got a friend that lives in Manchester. Wouldn’t want to live there but it is pretty.

And if you think I go around in the real world calling people “pukes”, “deviants”, “scumbags” – in my abrasive style, well, you’d be wrong. I think you take this “blogging” a little too seriously as some reflection upon your own life. That would put you in bad company with the revolting “puke” and other misfits having no life.

That’s one reason I always liked the General Chenster – I can tell he looks at this about like I do; a pastime, sometimes an exchange of info or ideas, and doesn’t take it too awful seriously. He mixes the important with the pastime – just the way it should be.

You’re not going to believe this next statement and this will blow your mind, but it is true:

Last year, I was nominated and received the “good” neighbor of year award from my residential home owners association. It’s given to those and my little plaque reads “Go above and beyond…” I’ve been a Big Brother, a hospital volunteer and numerous other good deed things. So while I may come across as incredibly abrasive with the lowlifes and pious like you which is my intent (so I don’t blow my top and kill the stupid in the real world who help to screw our country), outside the computer screen I’m actually not a bad guy.

Been married to the same beautiful Christian lady for 21 years but are currently separated by 500 miles because of work engagements and me going to school. We did for our children as to not disrupt the only life they’ve ever known. My two daughters are absolutely first rate, excellent students and pretty to look at. This last two years have been a personal downer because of boredom, difficulties, death, etc…but it won’t be that way much longer.

And now that I have sufficiently bored you with my boring stories of, if I heard you preaching your watered down message of “can’t we all just get along” while only criticizing your brothers in Christ out in public, I probably would remain silent. I my wish for you would be that you a little more effective in your personal witness.

You’re the one who mentioned not being qualified to judge me.

Durham, NH, by the way, not NC.

As to your point about the disciples being killed, they were killed for telling an unwanted Truth in love … not for calling people scumbags and using middle-school techniques of name-calling.

Perhaps you mistake for persecution the fact that people criticize you for having an abrasive personality. John the Baptist was hated for calling religious leaders on their fraud. And, yes, he used undiplomatic language to do so.

He didn’t just sit around insulting people, which is pretty much what you’re doing.

Anyway … I’m always amused by the “I’m not qualified to judge you, but …” line. Did you notice that you said you’re not qualified to judge me, but you’re going to do so, anyway?

LOL! I didn’t recognize part of the Great Commission was the commandment “You shall not observe!” I’m always amused by christians (small c purposely placed) that use the old, tired cliche we are not to judge. If we can’t discern, how shall we know the truth?

By the way, sitting in the church pew won’t save you. But I’m sure somewhere in Durham, NC, there’s an Evangelical preacher that has said as much. Interestingly, it was your type that ran me from the church. I got tired of the stale messages, the false piety, and the lack of courage.

Try to remember even Paul shook the dust from his feet, John the Baptist, who Christ himself called the greatest man who lived, vocally and openly criticized Herod, and Elijah, perhaps the greatest prophet ever, openly mocked the heathens. Eleven of the 12 Disciples were crucified, stoned, burned at the stake, beheaded, and crucified and I highly doubt that happened because they were busy making friends. So if I am wrong in my approach, I am in good company.

The other night, you criticized me for mocking a scumbag who pasted “McCain has heart attack” and accused me of probably being worse for using the term “Bambi Osama.” It was then I recognized your judgement not entirely sound.

P.S. – part of “love” requires standing for the truth and speaking the truth. And when Elijah said, “If God be God, follow God; if Baal be God, follow Baal would be probably be good advice.

{{Like I have said previously Wickle. Though not worthy to be your judge, my discernment tells me your claim to Evangelism rather weak. I have read one criticism and acquiesce to libbies after another in Chen’s chamber about Bush and Co. – yet never see a tad of the Great Commission. Why?}}

Not sure where you’ve said that before, but I probably just missed it. Sorry if I didn’t respond before.

Anyway … I’m always amused by the “I’m not qualified to judge you, but …” line. Did you notice that you said you’re not qualified to judge me, but you’re going to do so, anyway?

My claim to Evangelism is weak? If you mean Evangelicalism, then I invite you to Durham Evangelical Church (Durham, NH) any time. I’m pretty much always there for the 9:45 service as part of the worship team; you’ll find me in the tech booth at the computer. I’m the nerdy-looking guy who may or may not have his glasses on. I also generally attend the 11:30 service with my family after that, but I won’t always be in the same place, so that might make it harder to find me.

Anyway … In reference to my work on the Great Commission, I tend to witness much more in person than online, because I find that building relationships and trust makes that work better.

However, I also find that by showing love it serves as a witness. I don’t give in to libbies, as you put it; I stand on what I believe. Sometimes, that includes the fact that liberals aren’t actually sub-human vermin. They’re people with different opinions. I find that people are more receptive to hearing the Gospel from someone who loves them, rather than from people who hate them and treat them with contempt.

Criticizing Bush and Co. is a perfectly-appropriate Christian thing to do, just as it was appropriate to criticize Clinton and Co. and it will be appropriate to criticize whoever winds up as President in January.