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Obligatory (and official) Obama/McCain Debate II Thread

October 7, 2008

My take?  It was a bit of a snoozer, but I think Obama emerged victorious again.  Perhaps it was less of Obama winning, and more of McCain losing.  The Arizona senator sounded anxious and a bit desperate, and Obama more poised and presidential.  Overall, though, most of this stuff was covered in the last debate.

And now, a little round-up from around the internet:

  • CBS and CNN call it for Obama.
  • Malkin (right) and Beeton (left) agrees with me that it was a snoozer, and Justin at Donklephant agrees that McCain lost it.
  • Over at the Corner, Andy McCarthy is irate that McCain didn’t turn it into a poo-flinging contest.
  • Althouse earns the Mr. Conspiracy award (hilarious).
  • The transcript.
  • Drunkblogging?  (drink!)

Another wonderful night in American politics.

And I suppose I should note that, back in April, I predicted that these debates would cost McCain the election.   With only one debate remaining, I can’t honestly say that I was correct on this one (at least in the context of the argument I was making).  Obama will probably win the general, but there is no routs going on here.  On the other hand, I think its safe to say that these things aren’t exactly helping McCain’s situation.

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34 comments

  1. Not only did Obama win the debate but McCain showed his disdain for both Obama and the audience. He assumed that an audience member had never heard of Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac and then called that audience member by the name of the prior questioner (Alan instead of Oliver). Then, most famously, he referred to Obama as “that one.” My jaw dropped when he did that and not surprisingly the liberal blogosphere went up in flames. I’ve given my own spin on that over on my blog which I won’t hyperlink since I’ve been accused by several denizens of the Chamber of self promotion.

    In summary, McCain looked angry and old. Obama looked poised and ready to lead. Obama wins … no-brainer.


  2. McCain won, but not enough for anyone to care. No zingers that will be remembered past tomorrow.

    It was really boring and full of talking points we’ve heard for months (except for McCain’s mortgage bailout proposal).

    I was hoping for more pop from a town hall setting. Not that the questions favored 1 or the other, but they were pretty much the same questions and answers we’ve all heard before.

    I wouldn’t mind if that 90 minutes of my life were returned.


  3. Rutherford-

    I’ve given my own spin on that over on my blog which I won’t hyperlink since I’ve been accused by several denizens of the Chamber of self promotion.

    Well, its my blog, and since I do have an Emblem for “Blog Pimp“, its important to note the qualifier:

    Comments that contain links back to a blog that are relevant to the discussion are generally not considered blog pimping, as this is typically an effective way to expand on an idea or argument while giving credit to the author.

    So by all means, link away.


  4. It was really boring and full of talking points we’ve heard for months (except for McCain’s mortgage bailout proposal).

    Red Pill, while I still maintain that Obama won, I agree with you and Chen that it was not a game changing debate. Don’t you think though, as several pundits have said, that McCain’s mortgage bailout just lost him more of his base?

    So by all means, link away.

    Thank you Chen, I appreciate the clarification.

    The Bloody Hands of John McCain


  5. I’m with Red Pill … I want a refund. My wife wanted to watch a DVD, but I took over the stereo and she let me go with it … $700 billion might not bail ME out, now!


  6. OH Rutherford, you are a lost cause. You can’t stop pointing fingers of the evil Republicans who truth be known you blame for your own failures, and now must stoop to the wives as well. I must assume it is because it is your religion in your little world and everything fair game. But I do believe Lynne Cheney would chew you up and spit you out if you were to meet. She is infinitely more intelligent than you.

    I’ve often wondered why a decent gal like Laura Bush hasn’t worked up the nerve instead of being the wallflower to tell you how paranoid, insecure, and pathetic you and your crowd are. But she is married to your Hitler so all that would probably come to fruition is you would savage her with lies, propaganda, and deceit too.

    Perhaps Laura understands better than I do that is your lot in life: absolute viciousness and depravity and it is better to leave well enough alone and let ultimate justice prevail in good time. Personally, I think George Bush threw in the towel about 2-3 years ago, probably being cussed by Laura for having ever entered that hellhole, and W. said enough like his father did. I would have.

    However, I agree with you McCain didn’t win the debate. Your empty suit only has to stand there and choke “middle class”, “Hope and Change”, and “health care” and Obama’s got 50% of the vote this time around. That is how uninformed, how shallow America has become I’m afraid. There is nothing of substance Obama says, his misguided policies have failed miserably historically from windfall profit’s tax to his health care proposal. Most don’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of being invoked after he arrives in office. I doubt Obama will not even to get the simplest of promises administered but higher corporate taxes it doesn’t really matter anymore. Neither party can do much – the funds and channels are not there to facilitate any change. Too many promises but a pipe dream of becoming reality. For that reason, and because McCain is woefully inadequate explaining the situation (apparently he doesn’t have a clue either), I give the nod to the demagogue.

    And for once, I am going to agree with Wickle. I’d like two hours of my life back and since the market collapsed anyway, my money back on somebody else’s screwups. I knew better than to waste my time watching, but there’s always some hope that anything meaningful will come from a debate. It didn’t.


  7. I doubt Obama will not even to get the simplest of promises administered…

    Uh, that was supposed to read “will get”…


  8. Oh General,

    Sorry to change topic but of possible interest to a subject discussed here on the board two weeks ago:

    A University of Tennessee student has been indicted for illegally accessing the personal e-mail of vice presidential candidate and Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin.

    It alleges David Kernell, 20, used Yahoo’s password recovery tool to gain access to Sarah Palin’s e-mail, by answering questions with information available to the public with some research.

    David Kernell is set for trial December 16. He has entered a plea of not guilty.

    Kernell turned himself in at court Wednesday morning. The indictment was returned Tuesday and unsealed Wednesday.

    When he arrived at court, he was shackled and handcuffed.

    The conditions for his release contain more than a dozen provisions, including:

    –cannot leave the Eastern District of Tennessee without court permission. Kernell’s family lives in Memphis.
    –cannot possess a computer.
    –can access e-mail and can only access internet for class work.
    –must not have any contact with Gov. Sarah Palin or her family.

    The indictment alleges he reset the account’s password and read Palin’s e-mail, then posted screenshots and the password to a public message board.

    Kernell could face five years in prison and fines up to $250,000 if convicted.

    He is the son of Democratic Rep. Mike Kernell of Memphis. Friends have described Kernell as politically interested but not active. No UT student political organization has claimed him as a member.

    You still pretty sure nothing is going to come of the mischievious little hack?


  9. “Most don’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of being invoked after he arrives in office. I doubt Obama will not even to get the simplest of promises administered but higher corporate taxes it doesn’t really matter anymore. Neither party can do much – the funds and channels are not there to facilitate any change. Too many promises but a pipe dream of becoming reality.”

    This is completely true. I wish Democrats and Republicans would wake up and realize true “reform” is not going to come through electing one man for a four-year term. We’re smoked. Now I need to go back to building my cabin in the woods and stock-piling ammo. The rest of you suckers can continue to hope the next bubble the government creates to make up for this one isn’t a bubble afterall.


  10. I agree Mike. This melt down really is outside the normal left vs. right economic debate. Some say that this is proof that the free market needs regulation. True enough, transparency is desperately needed. But, in some ways, government REGULATION got us into this mess in the first place.

    Now for my rant.

    1.This subprime debacle was born out of the Democratic Party’s utopianism. Fanny is an extension of the Democratic Party. I don’t know how anyone can argue this anymore. I believe many of the Democrats really did mean well, while others, like Frank and Dodd, (Obama?)were grossly on the take. It’s baffling to me that the Chairmen of the House Financial Services Committee was having sex with the Assistant Director for Product Initiatives of Fanny and nobody was screaming bloody murder. Was this very gross conflict of interest the crux of the problem? Of course not. Not even close. But the unfortunate visual of that fat drooling fool’s romance is a giant metaphor for the entire problem. Love and lust between cocksuckers. Some of them loved us and desperately wanted us to achieve the dream; some of them only lusted after power and money.

    2.Speaking of cocksuckers, you sure didn’t see President Bush complaining about it when the market was heating like a magnesium fire. No, to speak out would mean asking the country to temporarily take one on the chin. Spend, spend, spend we were told! There was just no executive leadership. Bush should have been giving passionate speech after passionate speech about the looming disaster 4 years ago.

    3.Many of us plebeians are just as guilty. Lower middle class people became speculators. Completely undiversified, many of us were shootin’ dice. A certain element of entitlement has certainly gripped America. In hindsight, The Dead Rabbit is guilty of this as well. Luckily, I had an epiphany about 14 months ago. I know I’m sounding off like an arm chair Greenspan, but I swear to God, I saw all of this coming-both globally and in my rabbit hole. If my dumb ass could figure out that some Alice and Wonderland shit was going down, surely those in the know were just too cowardly to act. And by the way, don’t let um’ fool ya with the whole “it’s just so complicated” routine. It’s a cluster fuck, no doubt about it. So, of course it’s a complicated mess. Sometimes my fishing line becomes so tangled it takes an hour to fix. Does that mean casting a fucking jig is rocket science? Pyramid scams are less complicated then catching carp.

    (Editor’s note: The fact that Rutherford’s initial reaction to my earlier Barney Frank blurb was a worrisome rebuttal about homophobia goes to show how in the dark people are about the thieves in Congress. This isn’t commentary about homosexuality, its about the obvious corruption that Political Correctness may have played a role in masking.)


  11. Rabbit,

    To support your argument about the effectiveness of more government regulation, let me point out the last big government/corporate intervention concerning businesses. This particular act was “guaranteed” to bring some semblance of responsibility and accountability for the shareholders and taxpayers.

    Anybody remember Sarbanes-Oxley enacted in 2002 which was to restore public confidence in the nation’s capital markets by, among other things, strengthening corporate accounting controls?

    Costing millions of dollars comparable to the Y2K crisis and now into it’s 7th year, for the most part it has proven yet another boondoggle and another cost to anybody holding a share of stock, mutual fund and/or 401K account. Do any of you, no matter your affiliation, now feel more confident about balance sheet transparency?

    Call me naive but I believe I could bring many of these scams, including another prime mortgage fiasco, to a screeching halt while costing the taxpayer and shareholders just a few individual cents.

    Taking but a handful of banking executives, Wall Street money managers, a couple of Obama financial advisors, and some politicians, sentence them 20 years to life in their respective state penitentiaries, while relocating them to the general prison population. In addition, we will determine the personal net worth, taking approximately 99% of their collective wealth, leaving the remaining family to live like the rest of us – the monies used to pay for their loved ones hibernation in their new home.

    Barney Frank might be the only happy camper out of the ordeal…


  12. Wow…my cursing got a little out of control on that last rant of mine…..sorry folks


  13. and Tex….I agree 100%


  14. “Love and lust between cocksuckers.”

    Holy crap, that may be the single best summation of Washington insiderism I’ve ever heard. If a politician ran on that slogan, I’d vote for ‘im.


  15. Tex-

    You still pretty sure nothing is going to come of the mischievious little hack?

    I’m not sure, but I have updated the thread with this latest information (its only a handful of posts down, ya know). You can still leave those comments there.


  16. @Rutherford:

    Don’t you think though, as several pundits have said, that McCain’s mortgage bailout just lost him more of his base?

    At the time he said it and immediately after, I would agree with that.

    However, the recent rescue plan adopted by Congress already has this provision in place. McCain was simply pointing out 1 of the things the $700B can be put toward. He wasn’t talking about a seperate $300B rescue plan. And he has further clarified that point today. (I can’t find the link right now, and too worn out to look.)

    So if it costs him any of his base then it is only those who are looking to blame someone for a seperate issue that they are already pissed off about—which is the rescue plan itself.


  17. Found that link


  18. Red Pill-

    You’re talking about this?


  19. @Red Pill, true enough although isn’t it amusing that during the debate McCain presented this idea as some new brainstorm when he didn’t even introduce that concept into the current bailout bill?

    @Dead Rabbit, I deliberately posted the link to lend some evidence for those, who like me, had no idea what you were talking about beyond what appeared to be a simple blow job joke. As for being clueless about Frank’s history with all this, I plead guilty. For what it’s worth, I’m pretty much with you on your rant. Our current economic crisis has greatly increased my anxiety concerning our government’s ability to keep us out of such messes and I don’t see either candidate presenting a plan that gives me any confidence.

    @ Tex:

    OH Rutherford, you are a lost cause. You can’t stop pointing fingers of the evil Republicans who truth be known you blame for your own failures, and now must stoop to the wives as well.

    Oh no! Tex, you’ve been caught actually reading my blog! Interestingly, you’re not referring to the entry to which I linked earlier in this thread. You’re quoting from my Lynne Cheney post! Better be careful … if you read too many of my posts you might go blind. ;-)


  20. I just got an email from Chen Sr., and I figured that I might as well post it here (with permission):

    I’ve never ranted on political issues before. Yes, I’ve had a couple of bumps and spouted about other things…..but politics I know, even when “affected” is a subject I won’t touch. Just like Sex and Religion.
    Well, I’m sick of this shit. I would call myself a middle class, comfortably retired, hard working manager for over 40 years, independent, with a strong leaning toward Republican. Hey, I’ve taken some hits recently that I may never recover from. I’m no longer “comfortably” retired, and of course I’m not alone.
    I watched the Obama-McCain debate last night. I turned it off after 15 minutes. It’s nauseating. The finger pointing is sickening. THEY don’t answer questions….they just look at each other and blame the other side. I heard no solutions. I heard no new ideas. I heard no encouragement. Neither side answers a question with a straight answer.
    Sara? She’s basically a cartoon character. My initial thought when she was named…WHAT? I paused and listened and heard Frances McDormand, the cop from Minnesota in the movie “Fargo”. Yes, Tina Fey is amazing duplicating her.. But I am surprised that some network other than Fox hasn’t put McDormand’s “Fargo” talk up on the same screen with Sara. (Have you noticed Tina Fey winks with the opposite eye that Sara does?).
    So, I gave her the benefit of the doubt after my first negative thoughts. Then, I heard life long Democrat ladies saying they were impressed. I listened….I listened….I watched CNN, …I watched Fox,….I watched NBC. I read numerous articles. Somehow Jessie Ventura creeps into my thoughts. WHAT??? Do I want to vote for an old guy with a hockey mom as VP?
    WHERE IS OUR LEADERSHIP?
    Well, the polls are telling the tale. I believe that McCain has made one of the biggest blunders in the history of American politics in naming Palin as his VP. It apparently may have been a last ditch effort to distance himself from Bush….whatever…just watch any channel other than Fox and it will be clear.
    And on the Networks….I could rant and wish there truly was one that is neutral; I can’t stand to watch either of their slanted sides anymore.
    What’s really the truth? Who has ANY answers? Does it matter who we vote for? I’m watching Seinfeld reruns thru November.
    If I have offended you by sending this, I apoligize. I know this is sensitive. And you may be saying….”Chen Sr., this all wasn’t clear to you before”?
    Chen Sr.

    Not alone indeed.


  21. Sound like you’re a chip off the old block Chen…Sarah’s name is even misspelled. Tell the Sr. Tex said hi and that Tex agreed the debate was retching – a sign of the times.

    “R”,

    I read your article as I read several of the articles from cut and paste lefty blogs. I needed to reread the “ABOUT” box you so proudly display. I at least give you credit for coming up with something original as you’ve now chosen to move to the wife. Undoubtedly you’ve run out of insults for the husbands. Don’t forget, there’s still time for the children too!

    I wouldn’t get too cocky about your blog’s worth simply because out of morbid curiosity, Tex read your poorly written drivel. I read it because it was new. You’re one of a hundred I’ve read while getting a break.


  22. General, thank you for letting me ask this question here on WordPress:

    “R”, Sensico, In One Ear or even my good buddy General Chen of the incomparable WordPress press blog:

    I know you left wing flyers, but one subject that you guys and gals continually seem to be ignoring is the apparent voter fraud and ACORN – ignoring their Obama’s mates, of course.

    Here: http://www.lvrj.com/news/30613864.html
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081009/ap_on_el_ge/voter_fraud

    and

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/10092008/news/politics/nuts__132771.htm

    Since voter fraud seems awfully relevant to a Republic and an honest election, and you and your elite thinking your candidate most of praise for his honesty, hope and change, why hasn’t this received mention on any of your blogs?

    ACORN is now being investigated in 10 separate states. Isn’t that pretty specific to an election? Yet, nary a peep. My, how strange?

    I thought it was Republicans who stole elections?


  23. @Rutherford

    @Red Pill, true enough although isn’t it amusing that during the debate McCain presented this idea as some new brainstorm when he didn’t even introduce that concept into the current bailout bill?

    I don’t know that he presented it as “some new brainstorm.” It’s just that people hadn’t heard of its inclusion into the bill.

    That’s one of the benefits of being there when things are being negotiated and written. Which is probably why it was news to Barack Obama, as well as the rest of us.


  24. Red Pill-

    I don’t know that he presented it as “some new brainstorm.” It’s just that people hadn’t heard of its inclusion into the bill.

    That’s one of the benefits of being there when things are being negotiated and written. Which is probably why it was news to Barack Obama, as well as the rest of us.

    You sure about that? I dunno. This looks like something that McCain is independently proposing; how he’s use the funds in the bailout bill, not something in the bill itself.


  25. ACORN makes me want carve the name “John Locke” on my 12 gage. Of course, the Dead Rabbit is full of metaphors of late, and let that be another one. But, I’ll tell you what, nothing pisses me off more then ACORN shenanigans.


  26. Comrades. I warned you all. This bail out is a farce. We were told two things: 1. The bail out will stabilize the markets. 2. If the bail out doesn’t act instantly, the economy will essentially suffocate.

    Reality:

    No money from the bail out has gone anywhere. While the market is crashing, business is still alive. The layoffs will be coming, no doubt about it. But not tomorrow like they said.

    The pork ridden bail out is impossible to implement. Isn’t it funny, comrades, that the original plan was to buy risky mortgage backed securities? Well, what do you know? They don’t have a clue how to do this. The market is hanging on the abyss of government action.

    Of course McCain, in a fit of populist desperation, is rattling off about saving Dead Rabbit’s house. Mr. McCain, Rabbit lives in Wayne County, the epicenter of the mortgage melt down. Rabbit’s house has loss more then 50% of its value. Mr. McCain, I do not want you’re bail out.

    Socialization is scaring people away!

    Dow futures is down another 600 last I checked. (That’s tonight, not today’s loss) However, look for a rebound tomorrow. Socialization of banks, the new plan being discussed, will be a two day hit of cocaine with a price to pay Monday morning.


  27. your


  28. It had to be done now because it required Congress, and they were leaving for the rest of the year. It was now or next year.

    What is scaring some investors is Obama’s capital gains tax. They are playing “wait and see” instead of being bullish.

    Chen, I will read that article and respond later on tonight.


  29. If it doesn’t work, it didn’t need to go down.


  30. Red Pill,

    If you think the market is in a position to gage bets on anything outside of 24 hours right now, your naive. While Obama’s idiotic capital gains tax will eventually cripple a bruised market, a drowning, thrashing swimmer doesn’t give a damn about what’s for lunch tomorrow.

    Yeah mofos. More folksy metaphors fo yo asses.


  31. Hey, I ain’t sweating the messiah’s capital gains idiocy. It will be twenty years before I worry about capital gains again.

    What really concerns me are Obambi’s associations with slum lords, domestic terrorists (probably a few foreign ones too), racist preachers, black panthers, George Soros and money changers, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac kickbacks from his financial advisors, subprime sellouts giving profusely to the Dimocratic party, European bungholes wishing America to fall and the military to fail being Obambi the quickest way there, ACORN attempting to steal elections in 50 states, and about 60MM other potential Oprah rube votes.

    I think old Wall Street is counting on an Obama win and has answered the bell. Unfortunately, Dims come in two groups: (1) the few thousand haves who are busy stealing the money; (2) zillions of have nots who have nothing to lose…

    WHOOPEE!


  32. “Hey, I ain’t sweating the messiah’s capital gains idiocy. It will be twenty years before I worry about capital gains again.”

    lol


  33. Since I am new to economics, I won’t deny that I am naive.

    However, Neil Cavuto is not, and he is where I heard the stuff about the capital gains tax and the “wait and see” investors.

    I’m not saying that is why we are seeing the massive selloff. The economists I hear say that’s just panic. But that is why we aren’t seeing people with money starting to buy the now cheap stocks like we normally would with this level of decline.

    And to be fair, he didn’t only attribute that to the capital gains tax. People are also waiting to see what checks Paulson starts writing.


  34. You are mistaken. Let’s discuss. Write to me in PM.

    By the way, what do you think about this icon site?



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