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Watching The Train Wreck

October 13, 2008

I couldn’t help but notice that the number of conservative pundits coming out against -or otherwise expressing dissatisfaction with- the McCain campaign appears to be growing.  There’s frustration out there, that’s for sure, and its on full display and playing out all over the political web.  So, for the purposes of discussion and future reference, I decided to recap what we’ve seen in the last few days/weeks and post a little link depot (in no particular order, out of laziness):

David Brooks: Sarah Palin “Represents A Fatal Cancer To The Republican Party”

David Frum: Palin the irresponsible choice?

Kathleen Parker:  Palin Problem

Christopher Buckley:  Sorry, Dad, I’m Voting for Obama

Christopher Hitchens:  Vote for Obama McCain lacks the character and temperament to be president. And Palin is simply a disgrace. (ouch!)

Heather MacDonald: Gettin’ All Mavericky

Bill Kristol: Fire the Campaign (and later, the Campaign Fights Back!)

With regards to some of the other prominent pundits who refuse to accept all that, I’ve witnessed a few rather strange posts; a decent into the realm of rants and accusations that lie on the frayed ends of sanity.  Here’s one example:

Amdy McCarthy: Did Obama Write “Dreams from My Father” … Or Did Ayers? (a post that resulted in a WTH? exchange from one of his collegues at NRO)

And speaking of NRO and their unusual practice of conversing thru blog posts, there’s even more drama today, and Frum feels compelled to defend himself:

Do my correspondents (and now my Corner colleagues) truly believe that – but for my pitiful media and social ambitions – nobody in America would have noticeed that Sarah Palin cannot speak three coherent consecutive words about finance or economics? 

Double Ouch.

Now, having officially endorsed Obama for president here in the Chamber, one might assume that I’m watching all this with a certain amount of glee.  I’ll admit, there might be some of that, but mostly I feel a little vindicated for some of my recent threads.  After all, contrary to some of the charges made against me in the comments section that I’ve turned the Chamber into a medium of dishonest propaganda, here you have some evidence of similar criticism coming from those who are wearing partisan goggles of a different shade.

I hereby open up the thread, but I may add a few more derailment examples as I stumble upon them.

WordPress.com Political Blogger Alliance

Update: Well, that didn’t take long: Bush Strategist: McCain Knows He Put Country At Risk With Palin Pick

The other panelists were surprised, a bit, by Dowd’s bluntness. Not least because McCain’s well-known campaign motto is “country first.”

“No, I don’t agree,” said Mark McKinnon, a former McCain aide, after chiding Dowd for claiming particular insight into McCain’s soul.

“Well,” responded Dowd, “that’s even more disturbing than my thought” — the implication being that it would be truly frightening if McCain didn’t know how bad Palin truly was.

But maybe this one shouldn’t count (too RINOish).  I report, you decide, I guess.

Update:  Almost forgot about this one: Surprise: Peggy Noonan not sure who she’s voting for

Update: In Philly, Conservative Talk Radio Host Backs Obama

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120 comments

  1. It will be interesting to see how the loyal partisans answer that … After all, I think some of them still think that the economy is doing great.

    Nice illustration, by the way.


  2. Kristol and the neocon cliche too seems to preparing Palin for 2012.

    After this election the Republican Party is going to do some serious soul searching about how to, and who, is going to be running the Republican Party; which two parts of the tripartite will carry the banner, the national security wonks, social conservatives or libertarians.

    However, if the Republicans think they’re going to run Palin in 2012, it means they haven’t learned a thing.


  3. Actually the GOP has already started the soul searching. Romney and Pawlenty are two good examples of it. I also think Huckabee is starting to lean too. Palin is like the New England Patriots were like vs SD Chargers. 3 and out. Palin will be heading back to Alaska where she will not be long on the public roll.
    Call me a partisan putz but the real train wreck is yet to come and it’s gonna have a (D) wearing the engineers hat. The next 4 years will serve as the catalyst to recharge the GOP.


  4. Chen,

    As usual, thinking yourself the brilliant blogger and worthy adversary, you’ve completely missed the mark. Where are these figures from you’ve listed? The NYT, the Washington Post, Frum a Rudy G. supporter and pro-choice type who hates McCain, etc…All you have done is reinforce my argument that you are a propagandist cherry picking the news to support your likes and dislikes. Would you like me to go grab another Ann Coulter article for balance?

    Let me ask you a question if you think Sarah Palin so dumb. If it requires an Ivy League or credential obtained from the coast to qualify as an effective politician, why is Washington, chock full of academic geniuses and high powered attorneys from esteemed colleges, held in such low regard? Why does Sarah Palin have an 80% approval rating in her home state? Does that mean that 80% of Alaskans too ignorant to understand the nuances of leadership? Or does it mean that the lunatics are running the asylum in Washington as they run the country into the ground with their 9% approval rating?

    The same people you listed (short of Kristol who is pissed that McCain campaign is telling the masses to play nice, by the way) state for the Republican party to win, it must “move” toward the left and the middle to win elections; in otherword, RINOs. And now that dumbasses in the Republican party did that as they did in ’88, ’92 and ’96, the results speak for themselves; a one term Pres and two Bill Clintons.

    My complaint with you personally is that you post only things favorable to you, your party, and your candidate while you position yourself the seeker of knowledge. No, you’re not. You’re an immature, amoral hack with a leftist agenda – there’s certainly nothing unique or worldly about that as WordPress attests.

    What you don’t understand about your biggest critic, is that you must think me the big McCain fan and hardcore Republican. You would be wrong. I think it is McCain the one unqualified to lead; not Sarah Palin. McCain’s record is one of marginal to poor result with some major flops (John helped give us George Soros). And Obama has no record but self promotion and unwavering support for any leftist issue, his views bordering on failed socialism.

    I have been preaching for 20 years now that for things to really change, not only does a liberal like Obama have to win, but there must be a Dimocratic sweep where liberals are then without excuse and must operate under their own ideas and plans, or lack thereof.

    In two years, we will see how you do when it is time to “put up or shut up.” If you can do so, you’ve got Tex’s support and his vote.


  5. Speaking of Mr. Brooks I offer this up to support my previous comment.

    Obama will try to straddle the two camps – he seems to sympathize with both sides – but the liberals will win. Over the past decade, liberals have mounted a campaign against Robert Rubin-style economic policies, and they control the congressional power centers. Even if he’s so inclined, it’s difficult for a president to overrule the committee chairmen of his own party. It is more difficult to do that when the president is a Washington novice and the chairmen are skilled political hands. It is most difficult when the president has no record of confronting his own party elders. It’s completely impossible when the economy is in a steep recession, and an air of economic crisis pervades the nation.

    What we’re going to see, in short, is the Gingrich revolution in reverse and on steroids. There will be a big increase in spending and deficits. In normal times, moderates could have restrained the zeal on the left. In an economic crisis, not a chance. The over-reach is coming. The backlash is next.

    IHT
    Now I personally think this comment also touches on a bit of Tex’s. Perhaps Tex you’ll let me know. In advance return I have to say CZ is far from amoral and although he is pail worthy you yourself have credited him in allowing opposing viewpoints.


  6. Alfie,

    In advance return I have to say CZ is far from amoral and although he is pail worthy you yourself have credited him in allowing opposing viewpoints.

    Perhaps you would care to provide support that Chen not amoral? Can you vouch for him personally by providing examples? Amoral = lying outside the sphere to which moral judgments apply. I’ve seen Chen take no stands of substance on difficult moral issues. If fact, I’ve seen few even considered because it would expose Obama’s real weaknesses. Chen is the leader of the WordPress pom pon squad for Obama; the same thing he accused Sarah Palin of being. I give Chen credit for his creativity and hard work pertaining to his blog design. He’s had a few good ideas, like the Iraqi people voting whether they want us to stay that I agreed with. But in reality, the Chamber is generally one continual leftist propaganda thread after another.

    Alfie, Chen allows opposing viewpoints for these reasons:

    (1) That was the original purpose of his idea for a political blog, no matter how stilted, and as founder he’d be exposed as a fraud if he didn’t allow opposing opinion; (2) how many times does Chen beat his chest wearing the badge of honor about his own fairness by pointing to examples of blogs where he has been booted? It’s advertised on every page.

    May make me a cad in dropping the frequent bomb here, but it certainly does rankle the idiots like Kay and put Chen’s testament of free speech to the test, does it not? I simply take advantage of Chen’s own boasts.

    If you want me to admit that puts Chen ahead of that revolting creep clown, UglyKay, and other obvious hatemongers, okay. Those type are not amoral – they’re immoral and go looking for the forum to expose their hate. Big difference but I’m not sure that’s much to brag about either.


  7. Let me ask you a question if you think Sarah Palin so dumb.

    I might perhaps rewrite this sentence. I’m looking out for your best interests, of course.

    Why does Sarah Palin have an 80% approval rating in her home state?

    And this too. For ‘does’ read ‘did.’


  8. I have to run off to work, but I’ll be back to respond later tonight.


  9. Chen is going to respond later so I won’t get to involved. Suffice to say I got involved with Chen and played party to the tag and ping portions of the WPBA (pom pom club ?) and I did the leg work on a multi blogger blog burst. So I’d say CZ is fair,honest and open regards opposing views and I’ll testify that he actively cooperated with a person (me) that doesn’t share his views. I might not be around later but I am curious Tex if assumed correctly re the Brooks excerpt.


  10. Let me ask you a question if you think Sarah Palin so dumb.

    I might perhaps rewrite this sentence. I’m looking out for your best interests, of course.

    Why does Sarah Palin have an 80% approval rating in her home state?

    And this too. For ‘does’ read ‘did.’

    Do we speak in parables? Or are ‘we’ prophetic that ‘we’ know something about Sarah that I don’t?


  11. Alfie,

    If you interested in my opinion about Brooks as in most pundits, here is it. Though I agee with Brook’s estimation of what will be, I don’t agree with Brook’s assertions of how we got there from what I’ve read of his past columns. Nor do I consider Brooks a conservative; he’s a moderate appearing conservative vis-a-vis Paul Krugman, Maureen Dowd, and the rest.

    Politicians, editors or anybody else dependent upon the public for a vote or a nickel will not point toward the real source of the current economic problem. It has been in the making for at least 60 years: masses living off the dole – whether gov’t assistance that Obama will massively expand (tax credit in Obama’s parsed language is welfare by any other name) or individual credit. In otherwords, people living well beyond their means and/or not carrying their own water.

    If people are going to criticize Bush, what they really ought to be criticizing him about is cheerleading to keep consumers spending. That is exactly the opposite of what people should have been doing. And because people kept spending, the people that followed the rules (probably you, definitely me) are now being punished for other’s actions or inactions, however you want to define personal irresponsibility. And IMHO, the Dimocratic party encourages irresponsibility and caters to the lowest common denominator by encouraging dependence. Forgetting the moral aspects and their respective failures for a minute, I think the Dim’s financial policies borderline Marxist. I know Obama’s are.

    This vote really comes down to a simple question as do all other federal elections. Do think gov’t does it well and we need more of it; do you think gov’t is means and the method in the creation of bigger problems?


  12. Here Alfie,

    Do I think Chen malicious? No, for instance I think Ugly Kay malicious and a liar. Now that’s a thug – a weak one, but a thug. Chen’s not in that mold – he operates in the subtle model of cherry picking propaganda. I do think Chen incredibly naive, gullible and skewed. For instance, this is what I think Chen supports with glee at “THE CHAMBER” of which I try to remind him daily so I can hold him accountable in the near future:

    The lackey’s assistance to thugocracy…

    I am going to enjoy watching David Brooks, Kathleen Parker, Buckley’s feckless son, Frum and all the other RINOs dance when they get a personal taste of it…

    For if there is anything I loathe more than a lib, it’s a RINO.


  13. Chen,

    Why aren’t you asking hard questions about things like this, or is it that this obviously benefits your boy?

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/how_to_steal_ohio.html

    Still think I’m exaggerating and breaking Godwin’s Law, do you? This is unadulterated fascism General, no matter how you spin it.


  14. http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2008/10/true-grit.html

    Sometimes, truth is funnier than fiction.


  15. Tex,
    Krugman’s blog is called the conscious of a liberal.

    Is that a “moderate appearing conservative?”


  16. Marc,

    I had to recheck my statement for the liberal and comprehension challenged to make sure I hadn’t mad a mistake. I hadn’t.

    So I try again…in a more simple form. First the original quote:

    Nor do I consider Brooks a conservative; he’s a moderate appearing conservative vis-a-vis Paul Krugman, Maureen Dowd, and the rest.

    Brooks is a RINO. But when contrasted to a shill like Krugman Brooks would appear Conservative (another Nobel – another complete joke from the liberal persuasion of awards; they might as well name it MTV Nobel).

    And that is what I said the first time. Capiche?


  17. oops…mad/made


  18. For a good look at right-wing fury/incredulity/stupidity, I suggest a short trip over to our never-were-friends on Gulf Coast Pundit.

    Seriously, I’m not sure why they split from Charles Johnson. Because politically they’re reading from the same shill playbook. A playbook which, fortunately for the rest of us, is sending the possibility of a McCain would-be-Presidency farther into the realm of the fantastic.


  19. Alfie, in case you missed it:

    It’s Sarah talking about how if her daughter was raped by her husband and got pregnant, she would want her daughter to go full term, even if the daughter had broken arms and bruises all over her body!

    Yep, that Sarah, she’s a woman/girl supporter. Spit. I hate her. She is the enemy of REAL WOMEN. Sarah is just a man in drag.


  20. Sarah is just a man in drag.

    And UglyKay would give his right nut to look like Sarah Palin – insane jealousy.


  21. I’m jealous of a woman who would be fine if my daughter was raped by her husband and who would force my 11 year old to keep the baby? Sorry Corn Chex Taylor! I don’t care what she looks like….she’s evil. I bet there’s a wolf inside her. What do you think?


  22. A good decent woman:

    http://mytwocents.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/mother-theresa.jpg

    A woman who hangs with America haters, who forces young girls to keep their babies resulting from rape or incest, and who HAD HER HOUSE BUILT BY TODD’S BUDDIES FOR FREE, you know, the buddies who built the Wasilla sports complex that she lobbyied Washington for the money (a kick back! Move over Ted Stevens! Sarah is in town! Save some room in the jail cell!):

    http://nicedeb.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/pict132.jpg

    See the difference? Good looks don’t make ya good.


  23. Does anyone else suspect that Kay and Tex are really the same person, sitting in his or her parents’ basement, flaming him/herself and thinking that it’s really amusing?


  24. Wickle,

    Rest assured, it’s two different people. I only wish I could be as pious as you as you molest the boys at confession.


  25. “Does anyone else suspect that Kay and Tex are really the same person, sitting in his or her parents’ basement, flaming him/herself and thinking that it’s really amusing?”

    The thought has crossed my mind.

    Chen-
    As Tex has pointed out, no TRUE conservative has yet turned on McCain. Just as no true Scotsman would ever do that.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

    The fact is that the GOP is a big tent. Conservatives don’t agree with one another, and McCain actually runs on the premise that the GOP hard-liners aren’t big fans of his. Given that, it’s not really surprising that some would turn on him. Especially since he’s not a particularly effective Republican.

    It seems weird that both the Democratic and the Republican party have put up candidates that the leadership of the two parties don’t particularly care for. The Republicans for lack of a candidate and the Democrats for Obama’s slick advertising.


  26. No, Tex isn’t Kay. I picture Tex about 5’9, moderate mustache, shirt always tucked into his jeans while sporting white sneakers, Jerry Seinfeld style. Of course, when he’s with the presbyters, he goes with the sweater. Oh my god, Tex is the Bind Torture Kill guy!


  27. No, Tex isn’t Kay. I picture Tex about 5’9, moderate mustache, shirt always tucked into his jeans while sporting white sneakers, Jerry Seinfeld style. Of course, when he’s with the presbyters, he goes with the sweater. Oh my god, Tex is the Bind Torture Kill guy!

    Damn, you nailed me but can the sweater. However, when I got to Ugly Kay, I took a pass on the binding.


  28. lol


  29. Oh, Tex. :roll:

    I’m getting the feeling you’re coming off the rails yourself. I figured this thread would be a good test for ya, ’cause along with the polls and the general outlook, I’m guessing you’re beginning to lose it a little bit (like this guy). It’s OK, I can take it, but I’m growing a little tired of your predictable, superficial attacks on Kay. It’s getting old, buddy. Try to keep those hinges attached as we get closer to settling this thing. (and wtf is with that response to wickle? jeez)

    and BTW…

    Thinking that Palin was a terrible and intelligence-insulting choice for VP ≠ RINO


  30. Also,

    Why aren’t you asking hard questions about things like this, or is it that this obviously benefits your boy?

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/how_to_steal_ohio.html

    To me, its a little ironic that people are looking to Blackwell to comment on voter fraud.


  31. Well buddy,

    Buddy, I’m just calling you on your chickenshit duplicity, cherry picking and double speak. You’ve pissed me off about your little witchhunt dissing Palin and her family and you have more than proven to me you don’t have a shred of decency – hence the uptick in nastiness. If that’s a test, so be it. That has surprised me about because I thought I knew you better. Now I throw you in with the other underachieving lefties here at WordPress, or PuffHO and KKKos who “blog” for a living.

    Sorry buddy, you wouldn’t know a RINO if they slugged you in the nerts and announced they were a RINO while doing so. Since I put you in the pack of ACORN, Ayers, Biden, and Obambi, I don’t expect you to understand or comment about obvious unlawful violations by your side. Of course, you do recognize win or lose, this ACORN criminality now throws the entire election process into question. Almost half the country thinks you and your pack cheating and stealing before the votes are cast, Chen’s opinion or not. You think millions of people are going to stand for this crap forever? If so, you’re in for a surprise.

    Tough shit about Ugly Kay – she asks for it but you’re too cowardly to call her on her vicious demeanor. I note you never raise hell with Ugly about her horrendous comments like the garbage she made to Alfie from above. You going to tell me Alfie is deserving? I’ve read several of Alfie’s comments and never seen him be anything but a gentleman on your board or anywhere else. There’s that objective judgment in action again…

    And as far as coming of the rails, fuggetabout it! I just made $4,700 off the stock market this afternoon on a $35K investment made last Thursday, minus the commissions. I was sweating a little on Friday when the market was down 600, but yesterday put me over the top. You really think who wins this election is that important to me, do you Chen? Buwahahahahaha…I’m more concerned about cashing in before Dims start taking mine to give to you while you’re working at the carwash.


  32. I don’t know why Kay’s comment was directed at Alfie, but I really don’t see anything wrong with expressing an ideological difference wrt Palin’s statements on abortion.

    But what the heck do you mean by this:

    You’ve pissed me off about your little witchhunt dissing Palin and her family and you have more than proven to me you don’t have a shred of decency – hence the uptick in nastiness.

    What witchhunt? What diss? Indecent? IMO, my criticism of Palin has been pretty mainstream.

    C’mon, Tex, be specific. Otherwise, you’re proving my point.

    (and BTW, I don’t think Palin has to worry about a witchhunt from me or anyone else, as she’s been protected, remember?)


  33. Oh, and Re: ACORN

    Wouldn’t voter fraud more likely be the temptation of a campaign behind in the polls?

    Anyway, Obama addressed it today:

    “My understanding in terms of the voter fraud — because having run a voter registration drive, I know how problems arise — this is typically a situation where ACORN probably paid people to get registrations, and these folks, not wanting to actually register people because that’s actually hard work, just went into a phone book or made up names and submitted false registrations to get paid,” he said.

    “So there’s been fraud perpetrated probably on ACORN, if they paid these individuals and they actually didn’t do registrations, but this isn’t a situation where there’s actually people who are going to try to vote, ‘cause these are phony names, and it’s doubtful Tony Romo is gonna show up in Ohio to vote, so this is another one of these distractions that gets stirred up in the course of a campaign.”

    I’ll be honest. I’ve never worked in voter registration drives. My initial thought was that it was the work of a few irresponsible people trying to make some quota for submissions, and that whatever the incentive was or system involved was flawed. But what Obama’s saying here makes perfect sense. Are we to believe that there are going to be scores of people trying to show up and vote 50 times under 50 different names at 50 different polling stations in one day, and this is some organised scheme masterminded by someone behind some curtain? I mean, if it is, they should really have a smarter guy behind the curtain. Jimmy Johns? LOL


  34. I picture Tex Mexie drooling down his neck wearing a bib and dragging his knuckles on the ground when he walks. He doesn’t own a car, but takes the short bus when he needs to go back to the zoo.


  35. If I remember correctly, I left a comment here for the first time a week ago, and what happened? Tex started hurling insults at me! Oh yes, the neocon knuckle draggers appears to have forgotten this, but is now pointing his finger outward to blame everyone else now that he’s got a woman throwing him up against the wall.

    Bah hahahahahahaha! Funny.

    I put the comment above to Alfie here on this post, because he had asked me to link to something proving Sarah Palin is okay with an 11 year old being raped by her Daddy, then getting impregnanted as a result of the rape, and then how Sarah thinks the battered, beaten & emotionally scared girl should go full term.

    He thought I was full of crap when I stated Palin’s position on abortion.

    MY CONCLUSION: Sarah Palin is an extreme right wing nutcase and does not belong anywhere near the White House! We don’t need a VP gathering snakes on the front lawn, speaking in tongues, and starting wars while protecting stem cells at the same time!


  36. And since Obama “addressed it”, that makes everything okay in Chen’s book? Need I remind you that the charges now stem across all 50 states?

    UglyKay, I wouldn’t get to heavy about your knuckle dragging comments you like to toss around while you live in your imaginary world of thinking yourself the master debator. Trust me, you’re as dumb as you are ugly. Because from the looks of your pictures you like to post and the shape of your bulbous snout, there is little room for doubt who is cast from a simian’s loins.

    Try to remember that Zira.


  37. “I’ll be honest. I’ve never worked in voter registration drives. My initial thought was that it was the work of a few irresponsible people trying to make some quota for submissions, and that whatever the incentive was or system involved was flawed.”

    I worked on a registration drive, and yes that definitely happens. Plus, voter fraud happens in the booth and not on the registration form so much. I would indeed be worried if those thousands of people actually voted. The thing in Ohio involving early voter registration is worrying, however.

    In the coming weeks some crack investigative reporter will be on this and hopefully we’ll have some more facts. It is very suspicious that ACORN was slow to make an official response and how wide-spread it was, though.


  38. Of course its unsettling, Tex. I certainly don’t want our democratic process tarnished. It should definitely be investigated. But I don’t think that there’s really enough there to tie any of it to Obama, and trying to is gonna seem like a desperate tactic.

    And you should really answer my question Re: Palin.


  39. Well for what it’s worth I can take Kay calling me Alfie Delphie Dummy or whatever it was. Kay I called you insane because you SPECIFICALLY stated the Palin would be ok with HER daughter being raped by TODD and that it was a FACT that Todd had indeed RAPED and impregnated his daughter.
    I was fully aware of Palins extreme pro life position when I called you on your insanity of passing along the “fact” that Todd had raped his kid.
    I find Palins pro life position and rhetoric disingenuous. She is proud of her son being in the armed forces. She is tres vocal of her admiration of said armed forces. Being a veteran I can state with some authority that other than symbolic deterrence and occasional rescue efforts the US military is in fact designed for and very good at killing people.
    Continuing on Palin. I truly believe had Todd raped,molested or otherwise abused one of the Palin children Sarah would’ve initiated a shotgun “accident” of exponential finality compared to Cheney’s.
    I’ll gladly go quid pro quo with anyone on any issue. The salient requirement being mutual honesty and a bit of decorum.
    On the voterfraud issue.
    Obama thinks ACORN is the victim ???

    So there’s been fraud perpetrated probably on ACORN,(…)

    And Chen: registration fraud is a juicey nugget of concern becaues of all the potential. No ID required to vote in most places so there’s #1. #2 post election litigation based on numbers not necessarily names to pursue recounts,disqualifications etc.


  40. Rachel Maddow of MSNBC put it brilliantly regarding Acorn. Just because Mickey Mouse is registered to vote doesn’t mean he will actually show up to do so. When compared to actual voter fraud, voter registration fraud is relatively innocuous.

    The compensation scheme for voter-registration-folks (I don’t know what their official job title is) is what contributes to the registration fraud. They get paid for making quota on a certain number of registrants. The less scrupulous fabricate names to get paid. Simple as that. From my understanding, Acorn themselves surfaced the problem … they were not “outed” by anyone. My poor deluded Tex also neglected to mention that John McCain himself has spoken on behalf of Acorn in the past. Bottom line, the Acorn attack, like the Ayers attack, is a non-starter.

    I have had few pleasures that matched watching Chris Matthews interview Chris Buckley. All the interview did was convince me that if the Father of Modern Conservatism, WFB, were alive today, he would be denouncing McCain and he would not deign to even utter the name of Sarah Palin.

    @ Kay, you stated earlier in this thread

    She is the enemy of REAL WOMEN. Sarah is just a man in drag.

    That, my dear, is an insult to decent men everywhere. :-)


  41. Oh, while I’m visiting today, I must agree with two statements made by folks with whom I don’t usually agree.

    Alfie:

    I find Palins pro life position and rhetoric disingenuous. She is proud of her son being in the armed forces. She is tres vocal of her admiration of said armed forces. Being a veteran I can state with some authority that other than symbolic deterrence and occasional rescue efforts the US military is in fact designed for and very good at killing people.

    Bravo! I’m relieved to see that you (Alfie) are willing to speak truth as opposed to just parroting the party line. I hope my concurrence doesn’t make you rethink your position. ;-)

    And OMG! Brace yourself! Tex has actually said something that resonates with me (and not in a way that makes my stomach turn):

    In otherwords, people living well beyond their means and/or not carrying their own water.

    If people are going to criticize Bush, what they really ought to be criticizing him about is cheerleading to keep consumers spending. That is exactly the opposite of what people should have been doing.

    On this, Tex has my total agreement. While I’m not sure it’s realistic to have a “cash economy”, it is troubling how much living on credit has become the American way, whether it is in individual households or in the government itself. I don’t speak self-righteously about this because I am not the man I used to be in this regard. I once prided myself on strict debt management but recent economic troubles and career setbacks have severely altered my asset-to-liability ratio. Still, I do believe in buying what you can pay for, at least as an ideal … as a concept.


  42. On ACORN,
    The only way voter fraud can result as voter registration fraud are with absentee ballots; where mickey mouse isn’t actually required to show up and vote at the voting station.

    Which is what the Ohio GOP case appeared to be about this morning; it gave the local election boards the ability to disqualify early ballots with registration discrepancies.

    I have mixed feelings about this. At first it seems innocuous, until you take in Ohio politics.

    I’ve bebopped around all of the deep South, spent more than my share of time in poor and black East Cleveland, but the most outrageous cases of overt racism and racial political disenfranchisement have been in Cincinnati, Ohio (Truly as bad as some of the same drives I’ve seen in Mississippi).

    Local politics are almost entirely Republican in Southeast Ohio, and it was this which allowed Republicans to disenfranchise 300,000 Southeastern Ohio last election. Which is why the Dems so reflexively attack any Republican vote suppression tactics, justified or not.

    It’s really walking on a fence line as far as this goes and it’s nearly impossible to tell what the overall situation is without having people on the ground in each place voter registration fraud occurred.


  43. “R”,

    And OMG! Brace yourself! Tex has actually said something that resonates with me (and not in a way that makes my stomach turn)

    If I were critical of anything about Bush, including what he had for breakfast, I could be your best friend. What a disingenuous statement! :wink:

    I once prided myself on strict debt management but recent economic troubles and career setbacks have severely altered my asset-to-liability ratio.

    Off hand, I can’t think of a more deserving person than our resident faux intellect. May you have continued success in financial realm dickhead! :lol:


  44. Alfie,

    If I am following your last statement, am I understanding you correctly that you feel someone supportive of our military like Palin disingenuous in stating she is also adamantly pro-life? Am I understanding you correctly? Is that what you’re saying?

    If so, this place is even more f*cked up than even I imagined.


  45. “The only way voter fraud can result as voter registration fraud are with absentee ballots; where mickey mouse isn’t actually required to show up and vote at the voting station.”

    Yeah, it’s impossible for people to vote illegally in person, because there are no such things as identity theft or fake ID’s in America. For example, none of the 15,000,000 illegal immirgants here can actually vote, because they don’t have the proper paperwork or identification.

    Nobody can go to a polling place and vote as Tony Romo, because there is only 1 person in this entire country named Tony Romo, and all polling places have pictures of the voters on record so that they can cross-check the face as well as the name.

    Of course, these claims I have made above are rediculous. But that is the level of defense for ACORN that we have heard.

    Now, nobody suspects that Mickey Mouse is going to go out and vote in November. But what about the convicted felons in Nevada, for example? ACORN has registered over 1.3 million “voters.” And not all of them feature rediculous names.

    Groups like ACORN tarnish the integrity of our voting system. And Barack Obama has fascilitated them on more than 1 occasion. The fact that he claims to have done so for free is even worse than if he took money.

    Taking money for a service doesn’t always mean you agree with your clients. Business is business. Performing a service for free is another matter. Who here volunteers to do work for organizations you don’t agree with?

    And Chen is as partisan as they come (as am I), but he offers intelligent debate as well as a forum to do it in. And he doesn’t take away points when the intelligence level drops. An offense I’m sure we can all admit to have committed here at 1 time or another.


  46. Ha, OK, Obama’s relationship to ACORN is:

    he worked for project vote, which 7 years afterwards became an official affiliate of ACORN.

    He worked with ACORN as legal counsel in order to get an election law already on the books actually enforced in polling places.

    He hired them to the tune of 800,000 odd dollars to register voters, but hey, “business is business” right?


  47. I see the party line has now shifted from defending ACORN’s actions to defending Obama’s relationship to them.

    Under the bus you go, ACORN! Been nice knowin’ ya.


  48. Open question to Red Pill. Are you as outraged by voter suppression as you are by supposed “vote padding”?

    On another note, why am I not surprised that Tex is incapable of one simple civil exchange. Stupid of me to give him the benefit of the doubt (like a typical liberal). I’ll limit future Tex-related comments to criticism and keep any supportive comments to myself. Lesson learned.

    Following on Marc’s comment, Obama was legal counsel to Acorn in conjunction with the Justice Department …. so I guess the US government was also consorting with election cheaters?

    Oh … back to Tex, I sincerely hope you did interpret Alfie correctly. Either you care about the “sanctity of life” or you don’t. That’s what I love about conservative pro-lifers (as opposed to liberal ones). Conservative pro-lifers get their panties in a knot until you exit the vagina. Once you give your first life-affirming scream, you’re on your own. Yup …. real consistent … anti-abortion … pro capital punishment … pro guns for everybody … pro military.

    I guess the conservative pro-life slogan should be “Everyone has the right to be born, so they can grow up to kill and kill again.”

    And just so I’m clear … I’m no expert on Wickle’s politics but I think he has a consistent thought out view that respects human life from cradle to grave. I might not agree with him about abortion but I give him credit for what I suspect is his consistent view of things.


  49. Am I the party line now? Such awesome power…

    No, I think, and have thought, that ACORN’s quota system for doing registration was downright idiotic, and about as equally idiotic as I perceive the idea that ACORN hiring a bunch of flunkies who falsified forms (which, regardless of whether or not they were any good, ACORN was legally obliged to submit them, as is any organization which does voter registration) is somehow a huge conspiracy to “create” votes.

    ACORN was stupid in creating a system in which they’d tied them to the poor decision of halfwits. That makes them stupid, not evil.


  50. @Rutherford:

    Open question to Red Pill. Are you as outraged by voter suppression as you are by supposed “vote padding”?

    If I were made aware of any confirmed cases of voter suppression, then that would be something I would not be in favor of.

    I’m one of those types who signs every petition to allow something onto a ballot. And being in California, that gets to be quite a lot sometimes. I don’t care how rediculous the issue may seem to me. If enough people feel it’s important to them, then the people should be allowed to vote for or against it.

    I am not in favor of supressing opinions or votes. However, I am in favor of suppressing the exploitation of a political system. And if the suppression of votes occurs due to ACORN’s exploitation, then that is something ACORN should be blamed for—not the system.

    @Marc:

    Am I the party line now? Such awesome power…

    You’re just 1 of its many mouthpieces. *wink*


  51. Give me a little credit, bias I may have but I don’t register with them and I had to spam the Obama Action Wire.

    Don’t, ever, ever let those people get your info. It’s like a babysitting service, I get a call once a week to see if I am still voting Obama.


  52. And before anyone calls me on it—yes, I am aware that there have been no confirmed cases of vote padding.

    But the door has absolutely been opened for it. The only thing lacking is for fraudulent individuals to walk through it.


  53. @Marc: If I didn’t give you any credit, I wouldn’t be interested in engaging you in debate/discussion.

    That doesn’t mean we can’t have fun trading punches every now and then.


  54. Pill, I concur on the lovefest.

    You’re still a shill though.
    ;)


  55. “R”,

    You didn’t have a civil exchange with me you pitiful, lying sack. You took your normal fledgling cheap shot, then followed with the typical smarmy sarcasm about how you couldn’t believe we would agree on something. That may be the progressive idea of civility “R”, but not mine.

    So let me see if I can follow your logic. Now remember, it was our resident faux intellect lecturing me last week how static my thinking; how I couldn’t see those shades of “grey”. So…

    Since I believe in the sanctity of the unborn and their innocence, and believe all life of value, even yours :mad:, I can not differentiate between the innocence of an unborn child and the kill of a butcher of some character like Uday Hussein? Unbelievable…

    So am I to assume using your thought process Rutherord, our ancestors were guilty of murder in ending the Holocaust, storming the beaches on D-Day, our Founding Fathers guilty of murder, and our seeking to end Osama’s life wrong?

    You know Rutherford, you ought to be committed for insanity – you have shot past the stupidity stage.


  56. “R”,

    pro guns for everybody … pro military

    Which part of the 2nd Amendment do wish to revoke “R”?


  57. @Tex (and perhaps R) my world view can’t fit on a bumper sticker and my full answer can’t be placed here. In some attempt at answering you though I’d offer these diverse “Alfie-bites”.
    *Life begins at conception,choice begins before that.
    *Pro military doesn’t require an acceptance of the violence and horrors of combat or the policies that bring it about.
    *Pro life is a bit of a misnomer.Capital punishment is too often embraced by those that rail against abortion.
    *Require full term pregnancy of a rape victim,spare a rapists life seems skewed to me.
    Also: I believe in legal & responsible gun ownership in all settings,believe the military has a very specific mission and shouldn’t be used without full commitment to the mission at hand.
    and Palin specific…
    Her position (elected official) which she sought and performs with her faith convictions serving as guides seems to be half hearted when other Biblical principles seem to be lacking in that same life walk.
    Don’t know if that helps or makes sense but there it is.


  58. Alfie,

    Her position (elected official) which she sought and performs with her faith convictions serving as guides seems to be half hearted when other Biblical principles seem to be lacking in that same life walk.

    Not only does much of it (not all of it) not make any sense to me, the fact that one believes in justice and necessity of capital punishment, and yet thinks abortion wrong in all but the most extreme situations, is biblical – contrary to what the Pope or anyone else whom may disagree believes. This is one subject where the Papacy is flat out wrong and contrary to scripture.

    I would be more than happy to explain and prove that biblically that Sarah Palin is right (assuming I wholly understand her position) but not on this horrid board. This place doesn’t deserve explanation.


  59. Actually Tex,
    If we’re getting technical there is some debate as to whether or not old testament laws actually apply to gentiles or whether or not they were entirely for the Jews, especially in the Catholic church, based on the New Testament being the “new covenant,” according to the interpretation of Paul.

    The Roman Catholic Church’s official position, laid down at the Council of Trent, is that the 10 commandments apply to all Christians while the rest of the Old Testament is only applicable as a “moral guide” at times when they don’t contradict the New Testament.

    That’s not how it always worked out of course, but that’s how it is in the books.


  60. I’ve never understood why someone can say with a straight face that being opposed to abortion and favoring any ol’ war is contradictory. Unless you’re a complete pacifist, it’s totally reasonable for there to be justified and unjustified killings.

    Just because some people need killin’ doesn’t mean we can kill wantonly. Likewise, just because some people shouldn’t be killed, doesn’t mean there aren’t people who need killin’.

    I guess the trip-up is the phrase ‘pro-life’ and ‘culture of life’ rhetoric, but if you pay attention it’s obviously qualified.


  61. The Council of Trent. Lol. The Council of Trent unleashed Jesuit agents throughout Europe and drew a Catholic line in the sand that basically pushed Europe over the brink and into savage, religious war. Nobody sites the Council of Trent as guide for “all Christians”, dude. It’s purpose was the exact opposite. It’s regarded as stain on Catholicism. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m just kind of cracking up about anyone deferring to the Council of Trent to show an example of morality.


  62. Marc,

    I hesitate to even debate scripture in this hell hole, but you are mistaken so I will correct you.

    First, the most basic of precepts. Not only does the Old Testament apply to Gentiles, the New Testament is meaningless without the Old Testament Marc and makes Christ and the Crucifixion relevant. The Law applies to everyone (please see below):

    The Roman Catholic Church’s official position, laid down at the Council of Trent, is that the 10 commandments apply to all Christians while the rest of the Old Testament is only applicable as a “moral guide” at times when they don’t contradict the New Testament.

    Matt 5:18 from Christ Himself so there is no doubt:

    “For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.”


  63. Actually, you’re both wrong as what I was saying was only intended to apply to Roman Catholics. I’m not saying whether I do or don’t agree, I’m just calling it as I know it, and while the Council of Trent was responsible for a number of different events, the Council, like all Councils of Bishops was there to clarify aspects of Roman Catholic Dogma. One of the things they clarified was to what extent Mosaic (or that law from the Torah) law applies to Christians.

    They decided on the ten commandments, changed the date of the sabbath, few other things, etc…

    I mean the Catholic church doesn’t give much room for lay interpretation. I never meant to intend that it applied for “all christians,” just backing up John Paul.

    Got to defend the faith.


  64. Well Marc,

    You can defend John Paul of whom I both liked and respected, but you really ought to worry much more about what Jesus said for the record. I think John Paul would have agreed.

    P.S. – last I heard, Catholics and Protestants were both considered Gentile and Christian.


  65. Right, they both are. I was just replying to the part where you called the Pope a hypocrite. Ratzinger’s a hypocrite, for a different set of reasons, but they both share the same position on executions, which in one way or another grew out of the decision made at the Council of Trent.


  66. Mike,

    I’ve never understood why someone can say with a straight face that being opposed to abortion and favoring any ol’ war is contradictory. Unless you’re a complete pacifist, it’s totally reasonable for there to be justified and unjustified killings.

    Usually, I have some smart ass statement to chide you by. In the case, I can do nothing but simply say, “well said.”


  67. “…is that the 10 commandments apply to all Christians”

    You said it right there.


  68. Marc,

    There is an ocean wide difference between calling the Pope a hypocrite and me believing him mistaken. I don’t think John Paul or Pope Benedict either one a hypocrite and have great admiration for both. A hypocrite implies malicious intent…

    And I’m Protestant.


  69. The Council of Trent was after the Reformation and only counts towards Catholics…dude, the man’s a Calvinist…..what would he give a damn about the Couoncil of Tent?


  70. One of my favorite columnists (and according to Congressman Murtha I shouldn’t like because he’s black and anybody not voting for Obama is racist):

    The Real Obama


  71. The Real Obama:

    But neither this book nor anything else is likely to change the minds of Obama’s true believers, who have made up their minds and don’t want to be confused by the facts. That would be you Chen. Only you will take it a step further and mislead about the opponent…


  72. Barack worked for Acorn. During that time, the neocons were attending KKK meetings.

    Johnny is on tape in 2006 praising Acorn and other agencies just like it. What gives, neocons? Still hypocrites after all these years?

    And will Johnny mention Ayers tonight? I hope so and I hope Barack mentions how a lobbyist connected to McCain’s campaign LOBBIED FOR SADDAM HUSSEIN BACK IN THE 1990’S!

    Bah hahahahahahahaha!

    Republics/Neocons are gonna lose big time this year. And if they win? Consider it a stolen election as usual!


  73. Why women are REALLY voting for McCain:

    Bah hahahahaha! No woman in her right mind would be voting for this man! He doesn’t even think a woman she make the same wage as a man. He’s unfreakingbelievable. Wait. He’s George Bush’s 3rd term! Yes he is!


  74. Uh oh. Someone else is speaking out in favor of Bill Ayers from the Wall Street Journal:

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122402888900234543.html


  75. Uh oh. Someone else is speaking out in favor of Bill Ayers from the Wall Street Journal:

    I know you’re not smart enough to recognize this Ugly, but WSJ sells newspapers – and like the NYT, allows the token heathen like you to write a weekly column. Frank, looking much like a peter puffer, also does the occasional once over at your favorite Nazi blog PuffHO. He also wrote What’s the Matter with Kansas for which Frank gained some notoriety in your fascist circles by dissing the red states while trying to understand them. He never caught on.

    Let us talk about the author: born in 1965, a few years before your hero Ayers was bombing the Pentagon, Frank is now a hard core lefty pig (like you) and works mightily to revive the American Populist Movement.

    Since I know you uneducated as well as ugly, Ugly, let me give you the very brief history of the Populist Movement. Around the end of the 19th century, the Democratic Party took up many of the Populist Party’s causes at the national level, and quickly faded from national prominence.

    By all means, I want you to give your full support to Thomas Frank’s ideas. Parrot them, scream them at your boisterous blog, and make sure to listen closely…sit as far away from the main crowd as allowed. Even libs have an intolerance for musty stench and you wouldn’t want to interrupt the message.


  76. Kay on a working vacation last summer…


  77. Damn, try that again…##&*$% WordPress

    Kay on working vacation last summer…


  78. McCain lit Obama up this time in my opinion. However, McCain looks like he’s stretching every time he defends the possibility of Palin becoming president. I care about autism. It’s 345,967 on my priority list for this country.


  79. I was so interested, I went and got milk, then got groceries.

    I was just interested to see how the socialists were spinning the plumber story about spreading the wealth…


  80. You want me to tell you Rabbit what will happen after Obama wins the election? Let’s face it, McCain is a horrid debator and most Americans aren’t informed enough to judge fairly on anything but coolness. It’s a Dimocratic year and to be honest, I’m ready to go on the offensive.

    Here’s my predictions – they’re easy because it’s the same old story:

    (1) The gov’t will turn way left like they did in ’92, and the people will follow for a time until it begins to becomes apparent Gomorrah is not the road to follow;
    (2) Dims won’t be able to do shit about the economy and even if they could implement their socialist plans, the monies aren’t there;
    (3) taxes will increase, not decrease for the middle class;
    (4) crime will increase;
    (5) they won’t be able to protect your family and terrorism will again become an issue, only this time middle America won’t be so giving or forgiving when coasts are smoking;
    (6) racism will rear its ugly head;
    (7) the country will become even more divided;
    (8) the military will go to hell in a handbasket;
    (9) more people will be without health care – an Obama pipe dream;
    (10) there will be a redistribution of wealth until the job creators say “screw this, I’m going to start playing hardball back” – and the Chen type will find themselves unemployed and unemployable, spending more time working the Playstation in front of the TV and blogging.

    In four years, people will be saying what they said when they cast their vote for Ross Perot: “why the hell did I do that?”

    The Dims will be tossed on their collective asses after two years except for those states going bankrupt like CA, MI, and the other Dimocratically controlled senates which will continue to cast the Dim vote while the states slide into oblivion. More people will move south.


  81. Hey Rabbit,

    For us few supporters of the McCain camp, you might find this an interesting article:

    http://www.zombietime.com/lefts_big_blunder/

    Though I think this guy a part of a clan I generally don’t like (from another blog I used to post on), he does make some valid points.


  82. Tex,

    Re: “this horrid board” & “this hell hole”.

    Lemme guess, you’re a masochist?

    You are getting good at using those html tags, though.


  83. Slightly OT-

    Any of you guys watch the post-debate chatter on CNN? I think I’m in love with Amy Holmes. Man she’s cute!


  84. Chen, you got a love? I can absolutely, positively guarantee Kay is available and she likes your Kung Fu…

    I would guess you’re actually probably referring to sadist and not masochist…

    I never am sure since your vocabulary quite limited, but it also depends to which party you’re referring. If it would be masochist and Ugly Kay, masochist would be the last thing I would call myself. Her dangling, interdigital glands with the yellowish, cheesy material prevent normal humans from being in close proximity.

    The HTML is pretty rusty, actually General. I’m just following your lead. Been a long time since I had use for it. If WordPress had a preview key, it would allow for a few more witticisms.


  85. Chen,

    I just noticed. Amy Holmes isn’t your bag – isn’t she a Republican. See Fox even has better looking women.

    You ought to leave the dark side and you too could join the Fox News Gals club.

    See…

    http://www.globalmarquee.com/Julie%20Banderas.jpg

    Didn’t you know Republican women are far better looking?


  86. I would guess you’re actually probably referring to sadist and not masochist…

    I never am sure since your vocabulary quite limited, but it also depends to which party you’re referring. If it would be masochist and Ugly Kay, masochist would be the last thing I would call myself. Her dangling, interdigital glands with the yellowish, cheesy material prevent normal humans from being in close proximity.

    masochism

    2. gratification gained from pain, deprivation, degradation, etc., inflicted or imposed on oneself, either as a result of one’s own actions or the actions of others, esp. the tendency to seek this form of gratification.

    Like waffing your own farts in your face, or coming back, again and again, to a place you’ve described as a “hell hole”.

    Amy Holmes is a conservative, sure. She isn’t rabid and comes across as intellectually honest, though (you’d probably label her a RINO). So what? I like her.

    And there are plenty of other hotties on CNN, too. Campbell Brown? Cougar. Erica Hill? Hot. Betty Nguyen? Boo-yaa.


  87. According to CNN’s squiggly line thingy, women HATED JOHN MCCAIN LAST NIGHT DURING THE DEBATE.

    Now there’s a shocker! The only women who love John McCain are those who haven’t had a menstrual cycle in at least 20 years. LOL!

    Barack Obama will turn our nation around. You neocons can run and hide in your basements from your perceived scary notion of ‘socialism’, but the fact is….AMERICANS AND THE WORLD HATED 8 YEARS OF FASCISM. They are wanting some rational leadership in America that REBUILDS THE MIDDLE CLASS IN THIS COUNTRY!

    How about strong Unions? Oh boy! Wouldn’t it be nice if the next 4-8 years was focused on keeping jobs here in America and giving Americans a livable wage again? I think so! Those who don’t think this is a great idea are the ones who vote against their best interest every election under the notion that the republics care about them.

    Tax cuts/breaks for the wealthy over the last 8 years has doomed our nation and rational Americans know this. Giving tax cuts/breaks to those making less than $250,000/year is going to be great and wouldn’t it be great to see those making $5,000,000 to pay more than 10% in taxes? Yep! It won’t hurt them at all to pay 5% more…………oh but those making $18,000/year and who call themselves republicans will cry for these rich people!

    DUMBASSES. All of ya. Stooooooooooooooooooopid.


  88. Ugly,

    How about strong Unions? Oh boy! Wouldn’t it be nice if the next 4-8 years was focused on keeping jobs here in America and giving Americans a livable wage again?

    Oh yea…our raging economist exposes her broad, hairy ass again.

    Tell me Ugly. How’s the GM, Ford, Delta, and the airline unions doing these days for performance? Rock solid but about six feet under…How about the teacher’s unions, especially those in D.C. and Chicago? Rock solid but abject failures.

    So we can keep the jobs here but there will only be about seven of them left, assuming they can bag another governmental loan?

    Sounds like a great plan! Bravo! Bravo!


  89. Chenzhen,

    Like waffing your own farts in your face, or coming back, again and again, to a place you’ve described as a “hell hole”.

    Chen, why is it I picture you and your other underachieving buddies sitting out at the curb at the car dealership, with nothing to do, smoking a cig, and smelling your armpit for amusement to pass the time?

    My mistake about the description. Hell hole isn’t accurate. Lying, leftist shithole makes for a much better description. Like this for example:

    http://www.timesleader.com/news/breakingnews/Secret_Service_says_Kill_him_allegation_unfounded_.html

    Finally, I forgot the rules of “THE CHAMBER”, where one must operate under the KISS principle for the moderator to comprehend. Mea culpa…

    -In simple terms:
    A sadist gets pleasure from giving pain. A masochist gets pleasure from receiving pain. While you fancy yourself doling out scrutiny, I obviously think I am on the giving end.

    So I consider my description more accurate than yours…


  90. Chen….
    I am curious if you’d offer your opinion on the pending Obama “everyone but the top 5% gets a welfare check stimulus checks”. Under BO’s “spreading the wealth around” socialism you’ll likely get more than the previous $600 that helped you treat your ride to some love.
    Overall though I was left feeling you frowned upon those checks will you now smile ?
    http://chenzhen.wordpress.com/2008/05/09/the-patriotic-duty-of-blowing-ones-stimulus-check/


  91. Kay you’ll likely see some more unions since BO will gladly sign into law the card voting scheme the unions all have woodies for. Yup the Democrat Party pissing on democracy yoo hoo for America.
    As for jobs staying in country all the companies will have to balance the BO “punish offshoring” taxes with the benefits of being offshore. Little secret though either way the company execs and profit line won’t feel the bite-you the consumer will.
    That ties in with the thinking that the “rich” can afford to pay more taxes. Forgetting that the “rich” already pay most of the taxes I’d like to offer some more truth. Rich people don’t pay taxes. They get your money to pay their taxes.Remember those two points whence tickling the keys of your Bill Gates made NOT in America computer.
    Tax the stores,the plumbers, the who ever’s. The ones that choose to stay in business will pass the bill to you the consumer. Add to it BO’s green taxes on the energy sector. Noble ? perhaps but the Verizon,AT&T and Duke’s of the country won’t feel the bite. You will-it’ll be in your bill just like AlGores inventing the internet Universal connectivity thing is.
    Tex& others: your implied old v new justice , killing thing. Bollocks. If you really believe that cast the first stone I guess.


  92. General,

    Aren’t you the same expert blogger telling us Sarah Palin too dumb?

    Watch this 35 year member of Congress and a complete buffoon in action:

    Yep, we’ve got soon to be Caesar that doesn’t know how many states we have or which ones adjoin his own, and we’ve got a soon to be V.P. that can’t count to four.

    Boy, I’m feeling confident about their ability to lead!


  93. Alfie,

    Tex& others: your implied old v new justice , killing thing. Bollocks. If you really believe that cast the first stone I guess.

    Not following. You want me to tag the newborn baby or Osama with the rock?

    Alfie, do you know the difference between Obama and Osama?

    A little b.s.


  94. Hey Kay,

    Here’s some more of those strong unions and good news you’re wanting. Yes sirree! We need more plans like yours!

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081016/ap_on_bi_ge/gm_factories

    ALL HAIL CAESAR OBAMA! THE UNION MAN!


  95. As promised, THE CHAMBER’S OFFICIAL OBAMA/ACORN FRAUDULENT VOTER MAP (updated as needed):

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/SPGJmlzvQXI/AAAAAAAAWWI/l6K_huhjPLY/s1600-h/acorn+map.jpg

    And you thought the 2000 Election cheating was bad…


  96. Classic liberal comment of the day (even I thought this one funny):

    You conservatives want to have your cake and eat it too. You wanted us of the Left to stop bombing, terrorizing and committing acts of revolutionary rage and participate in the institutions of democracy. Now that we put aside our kidnappings, molotovs, and urine bags to participate in the democratic process, you still complain.


  97. Tex,
    where did you drag up this nutjob?

    For the record not all libs are former wobblies.


  98. Tex…walk up to Charles Manson or his equal,ask WWJD, and then let me know what you did with the stone.


  99. Well Alfie,

    Being that Jesus is God in my book, I would do exactly as He instructed me to:

    Genesis 9:6

    And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man. “Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shedfor in the image of God has God made man.

    followed by:

    Exodus 21:12-14

    “Anyone who strikes a man and kills him shall surely be put to death. However, if he does not do it intentionally, but God lets it happen, he is to flee to a place I will designate. But if a man schemes and kills another man deliberately, take him away from my altar and put him to death.

    And for those who think the killing in war also not justified, may I suggest they pick up and read the entire book of Joshua and Judges? You will see not only justified but ordered directly from God, as in “every man, woman, child, and even the beasts of the field.”

    As a matter of fact, Christ never condemned the Romans for doing so. Alfie, I can just from both the Old or New Testaments. Take your pick…I can make my case from both.


  100. Marc,

    There’s a whole lot more of them equally outrageous but not as funny. Any lefty blog with a fair amount of traffic will generally do. This one, though, was funny to me.

    Most of your party not like you Marc; that is generally rational, confused on the issues. For every Marc, I can find 20 Kay types. I hate to tell you that but it is the truth.


  101. Tex try John 8


  102. Alfie-

    Chen….
    I am curious if you’d offer your opinion on the pending Obama “everyone but the top 5% gets a welfare check stimulus checks”. Under BO’s “spreading the wealth around” socialism you’ll likely get more than the previous $600 that helped you treat your ride to some love.
    Overall though I was left feeling you frowned upon those checks will you now smile ?

    I’m not sure why you got that impression, so I might want to clarify. While I am disheartened that our country should find itself in a position that it would feel compelled to do such a thing, I really don’t have any problem accepting the money. Up to this point in my life, I’ve paid plenty of taxes, and I’m not sure that I’ve used a lot of the services beyond driving on the roads.

    The “s” word gets tossed around a lot wrt Obama’s plan, but my take is that he probably could have worded his response a little better. I mean, I’m not sure how Joe the plumber manages to make that kind of money fixing people’s toilets (maybe he’s a contractor for new construction or something, I dunno), but I would think that the idea would be that the clogged toilet people would be more likely to afford his services if they get a tax break. In other words, it’ll come back around. Is that socialism? I don’t know, I wasn’t a poli sci major, but to me its a variation of what we’ve always been doing.

    In light of those AIG DB’s kickin’ it on junkets on our bailout money, I don’t think you’re going to see a lot of sympathy for the rich havin to pony up a little more.


  103. “rational but confused” is probably the best Tex Taylor endorsement I’ll ever get. I’ll take it.


  104. Marc,

    ““rational but confused” is probably the best Tex Taylor endorsement I’ll ever get. I’ll take it.”

    :lol: Hey, that’s quite the compliment for a lib in my book! Consider yourself knighted.


  105. General,

    In other words, it’ll come back around. Is that socialism? I don’t know, I wasn’t a poli sci major, but to me its a variation of what we’ve always been doing.

    Call it what you will Chen. But you don’t have to be a poli sci major to recognize giving citizens money back from somebody else’s wages when the receiver didn’t pay to begin with, is either (1) welfare, (2) socialism, (3) “sharing the wealth”, or (4) stealing. I prefer no.s #1 and #4.

    Speaking of AIG, I noted you didn’t have a problem with Raines and Johnson, Obama campaign financial advisors, walking with over a $100MM between them after cooking the Fannie Mae books, or Barney Frank and Chris Dodd swinging a couple of sweetheart deals at taxpayer expense. Why don’t you ask them to distribute the wealth a little?


  106. Alfie,

    I assume you are referring to Pharisees? Well, when I figure out that Manson’s prosecutors were also murdering people too like the Pharisee’s and their hypocrisy, I’ll let you know.

    I haven’t found that passage yet..


  107. Tex-

    Call it what you will Chen. But you don’t have to be a poli sci major to recognize giving citizens money back from somebody else’s wages when the receiver didn’t pay to begin with, is either (1) welfare, (2) socialism, (3) “sharing the wealth”, or (4) stealing. I prefer no.s #1 and #4.

    Or, we could just call it a change in tax policy.


  108. Or, we could just call it a change in tax policy.

    We’re you a rebellious child? Did your mother ever pull her hair out? Did your teachers think you autistic? Is Bill Ayers is just an academician?

    What did my friend Rabbit call you? A copperhead shill?


  109. were…


  110. What did my friend Rabbit call you? A copperhead shill?

    You know, I take pride in being intellectually honest. I like to check the facts if they’re available. So, do you know what the kicker is, Tex?

    The “hypothetical” Joe the Plumber wouldn’t have a tax increase under Obama’s plan after all.


  111. The “hypothetical” Joe the Plumber wouldn’t have a tax increase under Obama’s plan after all.

    It’s a moot point. While we can dispute those facts with neither of us being able to prove the other wrong because the Obama plan so nebulous, the one thing I am sure of Chen is that there will never be a tax cut – it’s a sham that nobody has called Obama on it.

    The Bush tax cuts were temporary because of the Dims and they will rescind the Bush tax cuts – at best even if Obama implemented his tax cut, it’s a wash.

    But the kicker is, because of falling revenues, Obama will never give a tax cut; Bill Clinton ’92 deja vu. And the bottom line is, taxes will actually increase when the temporary tax cut is rescinded.

    Your boy’s numbers don’t add up. For Obama to scold Bush for ballooning deficits is the height of hypocrisy because that is exactly what will happen if Obama follows thru with his plans.

    Remember Chen, there is no such thing as a free lunch. Somebody pays…


  112. Say what? Joe the Plumber is connected to Charles Keating’s family?

    http://whitenoiseinsanity.wordpress.com/2008/10/16/joe-the-plumber-is-connected-to-charles-keatingyes-that-one/

    Does the deceit ever end with republics? Nope!


  113. George Bush from 2000 on wanted to bankrupt America to leave it for the next president to clean up. George and his friends & family are the REAL DOMESTIC TERRORISTS.


  114. @Chen…

    Up to this point in my life, I’ve paid plenty of taxes, and I’m not sure that I’ve used a lot of the services beyond driving on the roads.

    That’s your inner Republican/Libertarian speaking. Don’t snuff him !!!


  115. Tex-
    “For Obama to scold Bush for ballooning deficits is the height of hypocrisy because that is exactly what will happen if Obama follows thru with his plans.”

    “TPC estimates Barack Obama’s tax plans alone would add $3.5 trillion to the burgeoning debt over the next decade, while John McCain’s would increase the debt by more than $5 trillion—including extra interest costs.”

    It’s all in here: http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/url.cfm?ID=411750

    Also, according to the TPC, McCain is the one cutting taxes the most ($4.2 trillion to Obama’s $2.9 trillion.)


  116. Smerconish is a pretty interesting and thoughtful guy for a talk-radio host. And he’s got a pretty wide following, I believe.
    That’s not insignificant.


  117. Yea, twc, I just added that one. I naturally agreed with his reasoning.


  118. Uh oh. Joe the Plumber admits on video (yes! on video!) that Barack Obama is correct:

    LOL!

    Of course, “Joe” (not his real name…in fact the story has told about himself is completely untrue except for the part where he says he has a son and has a home) wouldn’t believe anything Barack said even if it was shown to him on paper from the Library of Congress, because “Joe” is a right wing neocon who drags his knuckles on the ground when he walks!


  119. McCain will be cutting taxes for THE UBER WEALTHY only.


  120. Some people do use their middle names, you know. VP J. Danforth Quayle, General H. Norman Schwarzkopf, author F. Scott Fitzgerald, President John Calvin Coolidge … and some guy who calls himself Wickle online, in real life (as well as my father and both brothers).

    Mostly, I think that the whole Joe the Plumber thing is blown out of proportion by both sides, but this nonsense about Joe not being his “real” name is really silly.



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