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“Supporting” Genocide In Iraq

August 12, 2007

Today I stumbled upon a blog post over at Bloodthirsty Liberal:  Democrats and Genocide

So here’s the tally: Clinton will allow genocide, Obama will allow genocide, and John Edwards will pull troops out, but if a genocide develops, he’ll put them back in.

This seems to be the new talking point on Iraq;  Those who wish to leave Iraq will be responsible for the inevitable genocide that will result.  Here’s a month-old post by Jules Crittenden, where I scoped out this comment:

If genocide is NOT happening presently in Iraq (the Times states that it could happen if we leave), then how could keeping troops in Iraq make things worse????( assuming that genocide IS worse than what we have now).

What am I missing?

First off, genocide is probably a loaded word.  There are, however, those who claim that it is happening now:

BAGHDAD – Iraq’s most senior Sunni politician issued a desperate appeal Sunday for Arab nations to help stop what he called an “unprecedented genocide campaign” by Shiite militias armed, trained and controlled by Iran.

Genocide?  Let’s look at the definition:

gen·o·cide  (jn-sd) n.

The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.

I think the key word there is extermination.  To me, it’s always implied a strong force imposing it’s will on a significantly weaker or helpless force.  The Shia certainly outnuber the Sunnis in Iraq, but I’m not sure that the goal is extermination or instead to drive them out of Baghdad.  The difference between “genocide” and “civil war” goes beyond semantics I think.  “Genocide” has a certain “crime against humanity” ring to it, and “civil war” sounds akin to a domestic dispute that wouldn’t otherwise be any of our business.  Maybe all war is a crime against humanity?  Whatever you want to call it, it appears to be happening now.  The real question is whether we can stop it.

What are we doing to stop it, anyway?  Calling for a cease-fire?  Disarming the militias?

But you know, if we leave, it will surely get worse.  The real genocide will begin.

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33 comments

  1. I’m for immediate withdrawal of U. S. forces. My reasoning is that we are merely prolonging the inevitabe. What is occuring is I think neither a civil war, nor a genocide. It’s an extremely bloody theolgically inspired war between two religious factions. It is also none of our business, none of our concern, and beyond our rights as human beings to be taking part in it.


  2. Most Leftists are OK with genocide.
    Lefties looked the other way when the USSR was killing tens of millions. It’s none of our business they said.
    Lefties looked the other way when they killed millions in Cambodia and South Vietnam. It’s none of our business they said.
    Lefties and the Clinton regime looked the other way when the killed a million in Rwanda. It’s none of our business they say.

    Lefty says that genocide in Darfur is bad and they say that they don’t want to look the other way….but I don’t believe anything Lefty says anymore.

    And why does Lefty care so much about Muslims committing genocide in Darfur, yet they could care less about Muslims committing genocide in Iraq? Iraq…a place that we have a lot invested in and a place that we have a real chance to avert a genocide?

    Answer: Because Lefty is f*cking nuts! And I don’t believe a G-d damned thing that Lefty says anymore!

    And Chen, I actually used to like reading your blog from time to time. But where the hell do you get these little socialist nutbags that come by here one by one and drop little Left Wing turds like they’re some kind of enlightened thinking or something.
    You should be ashamed of yourself for even entertaining these lightweights without even challenging them. Or have you become so overwhelmed with Leftists thought yourself that you don’t even recognize it anymore?


  3. The withdrawal from Iraq will be by no means simple, but unavoidable. It seems clear today that the majority of Americans favor bringing our troops out of harm’s way. It has been voiced a political request to our politicians for disengaging our military people from that obscene intestine civil war and its rampant terrorist activity. There is also a sizeable portion of the country, and among them, the mainstream of the Democratic Party who state that Iraq should take responsibility of its own future, develop a stable country and a healthy society and institutions.

    At last, an increasing number of well intended Americans want to restore to the nation its credibility in the international arena, as well as to regain a feeling of common decency by stopping our involvement in that carnage and the obviously immoral use of torture, white phosphorus on civilian populations and the killing and maiming of innocent children.

    The differing positions about the withdrawal seem to reside in the various proposed dates for a timetable rather than on its possibility. The withdrawal will happen; either before or after the conclusion of the Bush administration, but its occurrence is certain. What seems to be uncertain, and puzzling to me, is the level of responsibility that we are prepared to undertake.

    When the US government, with the backing of the legislative branch of power and the undeniable support—albeit misled—from the population as a whole; decided to attack and invade Iraq against the UN advice and the opinion of the Weapons inspectors on the field, brought alongside the invasion the very same problems we are facing now.

    Despite all sound recommendations we invaded a sovereign country under the most indecent banner of all: preemptive war. With such an excuse we toppled a government we disliked, we created and allowed a court of the most dubious kind to perform the grotesque hanging of the captured ex-dictator to be broadcasted over the world to show the world which values we were putting forward.

    With the arrival of our troops, composed mainly by the poor and the meek, the hopeless and the newly arrived immigrants; we freed the path to the newly fueled partisan hate on the Iraqi soil. Most incredibly, with the corruption of our management and the corruption of the puppet government we put in power, we finally brought to Iraq the shock and awe of al-Qaeda.

    It is clear that we have to get out of Iraq. What should be clear as well is the immense debt we have contracted with the Iraqi people. I presume that it is sufficiently obvious both that we cannot solve the Iraqi turmoil by ourselves and the fact that we are responsible to help bring Iraq out of the crisis we have created. I believe the only chance we have to bring some comfort to our future generations from the hate and perils we are passing them as inheritance is to solve this conundrum.

    A possible solution after withdrawal might be for us to fund the UN to have non-American armed forces in Iraq to curtail the raise of sectarian terrorism, impose an enforceable peace keeping and allow the formation of a functional government. Secondly, we need to give the UN the necessary economic support for the reconstruction of Iraq with the express prohibition for American companies to gain contracts in that process. It is a moral imperative that we do not profit from it.

    This would need to be an extremely expensive, perhaps much more than what we spend in the reconstruction of Germany and Japan together; after all Iraq never attacked us. This perhaps could bring a long lasting stability in the region and with it some peace may come to our nation’s conscience.

    It seems to me improbable that we, as a people, will soon vote to increase taxes in order to save our future by financing the future of a people so alien to us; but I prefer to believe that eventually, we are going to assume the cost of our actions.


  4. Alonso Álvarez de Araya.

    I think I saw that same drivel on the pages of “The Nation”

    Or was it “The Daily Worker”?


  5. Anyone that says Iraq will simply devolve into genocide is ignoring the role of tribal politics and the other nations in the region. This is not going to be another Rwanda. Want to know why? For one thing, all parties are armed.


  6. hey jarhead, I mean desert sage…i never liked clowns like you when i was with the first battalion 9th marines…nor did i like idiots like you when I was with the second tank battalion. you’re apparent ignorance is a shame and a disgrace to that emblem you use for an avatar.

    Semper fi, asshole


  7. Jesus. DesertBrain proves that the ASVAB isn’t nearly tough enough.

    I served with some bonafide wingtards, but none that I know of were this far gone. I agree that this one should replace the proud emblem he’s using, because he’s putting a shitstain on it.


  8. Hey Jollyasshole and criminydickhead, why don’t you come and take my avatar away from me?

    I met jerks like you in the Corps, one of them actually voted for Carter. Nobody ever talked to him. He cried himself to sleep every night and pissed his bed like you two fakes.

    He’s probab;ly posting over at Kos and singing kumbaya like you two little sissies.


  9. And Chen, I actually used to like reading your blog from time to time. But where the hell do you get these little socialist nutbags that come by here one by one and drop little Left Wing turds like they’re some kind of enlightened thinking or something.
    You should be ashamed of yourself for even entertaining these lightweights without even challenging them. Or have you become so overwhelmed with Leftists thought yourself that you don’t even recognize it anymore?

    You aren’t challenging them. You’re just being insulting. He doesn’t think it’s genocide. So what? Maybe instead of calling someone a ‘left wing turd’, you could actually explain your position without going on a rant. You know, it is possible to debate these things without calling people names. I do it everyday.


  10. I’m almost certain that he can’t defend his position without looking up the big words first. You did not know anyone like me in the corps, sage, because quite frankly, I’ve read a book iduring my lifetime, and I can’t imagine anyone literate spending time in your company.
    Further, I lean conservative on most issues, and don’t consider wasting military assets in an unwinnable “hearts and minds” campaign to be an appropriate use of our military. In this I agree with virtually every Vietnam war era historian, and I’m sure the historians that will study the Iraq war.
    As far as taking your avatar away little fella, you are just one more blogworld tough guy to me. I am unimpressed by your wit, your intellect, and your “cybertoughness.”


  11. hey ChenZen. remember me?

    I just saw your comment on Daily Kos, supporting a post in which someone describes Conservatives as “douchebags”, “wild-eyed half-literate nutcase(s) spouting discredited bullsh*t”.

    Here is the direct quote:

    “Do us another favor and put that f**king crap on your car….has it dawned on you imbeciles that the country is sick of the F.U.D. yet? Has it occured to you f*cking sycophantic lickspittle wannabe-fascists that the country has heard no shortage of “support terrorism, vote Democrat [sic]” over the last six years and despite that still voted in the Democrats in November?”

    So, you agree with that scum calling me “imbecile…f**king sycophantic fascist”?

    We disagree on issues — I have always been respectful to you, even this issue which we discussed at great length.

    I am fine if that guy disagrees with me too — but not in this form, not in these words or tone.

    Apparently, you do not respect me. Apparently, you agree that I am all those vile things mentioned above. You agree with this vile name calling. You are not welcome on my blog anymore.

    Have a good life.


  12. just something for you to think about:

    1. you to me were an opponent, not an personal enemy.
    2. Daily Kos promotes treatment of all conservatives as personal enemies of Liberals.
    3. while conservatives might disagree with liberals, there is no conservative website that promotes same level of personal rancor as Daily Kos. They never descent into “f*ck”-level of conversation.
    4. you yak-yak-yakked in support on Daily Kos on one of the most insulting postings, which used all four-letter vocabulary available in address of all conservatives.

    do you think this is OK?


  13. Oh yeah, one last thing:

    JFK must be REAL proud of you, about how much RESPECT you have for your political opponents.


  14. Geepers armilnov, you sure are riled up over the Daily Kos. All I did there was let the guy know that his post made LGF. I’m a little weirded out that you hunted that down, too.

    Personally, I prefer to debate in a more respectful manner , free of obscenities and such, but I’m not a prude either. Some of that stuff I don’t really give a second thought about. I think it’s kinda silly to be shouting at each other between blogs like that anyway. It’s pretty much the reason why I started my own blog and invited bloggers from all political stripes to post here. We can engage each other directly without having “some guy on LGF said this”, or “some Kossack posted that” debates.


  15. “I prefer to debate in a more respectful manner , free of obscenities and such, but I’m not a prude either. Some of that stuff I don’t really give a second thought about.”

    Really?

    What would you do if I posted a comment agreeing to some guy saying that all Liberals are “f*cking sycophantic lickspittle wannabe-fascists”?

    I bet you would jump that keyboard shouting about Conservative/FOX News intolerance right away.

    You are a hypocrite.


  16. Maybe you have no dignity, maybe you like to have f-words hurled into your face, because your opinion on issues does not match. I don’t.


  17. and one more thing, so that you (and people like you) won’t bring FOX news ever again:

    I am yet to see the day when O’Reilly describes any Liberal as a “imbecile…f**king sycophantic fascist”. He might not like Liberals (it is his right), but he never insults anyone.

    I am yet to see the day when Sean Hannity refers to his FOX News co-host, Alan Colmes (who is a Liberal Democrat, by the way) as a “f*cking sycophantic lickspittle wannabe-fascists”.

    I have a right to disagree with you and not to be insulted. You, apparently, think otherwise. You didn’t even peep, did not even TRY TO DISAGREE, when that scum called me, a Conservative, a “fascist”. I have family who died fighting in WWII. Can you even imagine how insulting to me that slur is?


  18. Do you always post in 3’s like this? LOL Is your submit button set to semi-auto or something?


  19. you think this is FUNNY?

    I am a Russian Jew. I grew up in soviet union, my grandfather and his father (who are Jews) fought against Nazis. I have six male family members perish while fighting fascists on Eastern front.

    AND YOU THINK THIS “FASCIST” CRAP IS FUNNY?

    thank you for trying to evade my question. i am wasting my time with you, you are like a zombie


  20. I can be fine if we disagree on war, abortion, immigration, whatever.

    But your disagreeing with me over slurs like “f*cking sycophantic lickspittle wannabe-fascists” in address of all Conservatives and ME PERSONALLY, tells me one thing: you are as much an intolerant, profane human scum, as the guy who wrote that. Only difference between him and you is this: YOU AND HIM BOTH THINK THAT, BUT YOU ARE JUST TOO CHICKEN TO SAY IT.


  21. Yea I think it’s funny. You’re accusing me of saying things I didn’t say, and putting words in my mouth. Your imagination is running wild right now. Again, all I did was let the guy know that his post made LGF (and IIRC, that was before he made the fascist comment). Geez.


  22. Well, if you have thick skin only when it is not YOU who gets insulted, I guess only grave will fix your groveling self.

    Again, YOU AND HIM BOTH THINK WHAT THAT GUY SAID, BUT YOU ARE JUST TOO CHICKEN TO SAY IT.

    If you did not agree with him, why did you not disagree?

    Oh wait, of course, why should you? It is not you who gets insulted! It is just a Conservative “wannabe-fascist”! It is OK to insult him, call him names.

    Right.


  23. be proud. JFK would definitely approve


  24. If you did not agree with him, why did you not disagree?

    Fer crying out loud armilnov, I don’t have time to put my stamp of approval or disapproval on every single comment that’s out there, whether I think it’s hateful or pleasant. I certainly don’t do it on LGF. Heck, I hardly do it on this blog.

    I’m beginning to think you’re off your rocker.

    I am a Russian Jew. I grew up in soviet union, my grandfather and his father (who are Jews) fought against Nazis. I have six male family members perish while fighting fascists on Eastern front.

    I must have missed the part where using the word ‘fascist’ to describe someone was anti-semitic. the term gets thrown around as a slur to label someone as an authoritarian right winger. I agree that it’s probably used way too much and the people using it don’t usually know what the heck they’re talking about, but you’re treating it like it’s some sort of hate crime. Besides, he wasn’t calling you a ‘fascist’ anyway. He was responding to specific commentors on LGF.

    Please take your grievance theater somewhere else.


  25. you know what is the fundamental difference between me and you?

    If anyone called you a “chink” in my presence I would without hesitation kick that guy’s ass.

    Let’s reverse the situation. Imagine that someone calls me a “kike”. It seems you would not even object. Why should you, it wasn’t you who got insulted, right? It wasn’t you who said it, right? So, why should you stick your neck out and get involved?

    To me, to be called a “fascist” is the same as being called a “kike” to my face. And by the way, that guy said “fascist” in the body of posting. Who do you take me for? A “kike/fascist-wannabe Conservative”, maybe?


  26. i used to think you were strident and narrow minded, but must confess your recent diatribe here has changed my opinion.


  27. criminyjicket –

    Who are you referring to?


  28. “strident and narrow minded, but must confess your recent diatribe here has changed my opinion.”

    You know what? I apologize for my choice of words. I did what YOU kossaks do every day. I became what YOU ARE, Chen, for a second. I sincerely apologize for that lapse in judgment. I really do.

    I am tired of proving to you that Elephants are, in fact, Elephants. I am tired of proving to you how insulting and sick is what you think is so funny.

    Don’t come near my blog, you two are not welcome.


  29. and when I say I am sorry, I really am. But I guess now you know how that stuff at Daily Kos feels like.


  30. you see chen,

    you did not even try to disagree with him. what that kossak said, was all right with you. that is your problem. maybe I am not as “snow white” anymore, but you not either MOST DEFINITELY.

    Again, my apologies. Best wishes.


  31. The funny thing is, I’m not even Asian.


  32. arminlov, chen. this isn’t my first experience.


  33. to ChenZhen and criminyjicket:

    I admit to both of you that I really lost my head in that comment. This was my personal “Daily Kos” moment. I literally cannot fall asleep because of the shame. I do not want to go through blogosphere “looking over my shoulder”, to have this tarnish my good name. I do not want this kossak-style dirt to be on me no longer. I am coming clean and I admit I was dead wrong for using certain words in comment above.

    Chen, you have my sincere apologies, as I said before.

    I just want to point out, that my comment was not a racist slur against you, Chen. I did not call YOU, or anyone in here any names, I merely used words I should not have to describe a hypothetical situation. I just want everyone to be crystal clear about that.

    I cannot un-say what I said. All I can do is apologize, and I am doing that right now. I hope that is good enough. I still stand by what I said about Daily Kos. I admit that you did not approve of that post. You are right, I cannot blame you for saying anything yourself. I wish you would disagree with it and say anything to that effect, but that does not justify my own behavior, so I hope we are even. In either case, I want to get over that now.

    I feel very, very strongly about certain things in my family heritage, and what this Daily Kos “fascist” slur thing did, is insult me in a very, VERY personal way. I was very, very angry for last couple of days. That is reason, but not in any way an excuse for my word-choice.

    I hope we all will put stuff about this Daily Kos posting and my not-so-pretty comment behind us. If you want to keep grudge, it is your own choice, I can’t help that. I do not want any flame war. I am going to let go of my worst moment in my blogosphere life. Both of you are free to visit and comment on my blog anytime if you wish to. If you do not, and if you want to keep grudge — as I said, it is your own choice. You have my sincere apologies, and I can do nothing else.

    Sincerely,
    -armilnov



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