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Flame Warrior Profile: Armilnov

August 14, 2007

During my travels through the blogosphere, I occasionally bump into a netizen whose posts deserve special recognition.  And since I haven’t done one of my “Flame Warrior Profiles” in a while, I figured that I’m probably due for another one.

Today’s profile is for fellow WordPress political blogger armilnov, who appears to be a textbook Ferrous Cranus

Ferrous Cranus
ferrouscranus.jpgFerrous Cranus is utterly impervious to reason, persuasion and new ideas, and when engaged in battle he will not yield an inch in his position regardless of its hopelessness. Though his thrusts are decisively repulsed, his arguments crushed in every detail and his defenses demolished beyond repair he will remount the same attack again and again with only the slightest variation in tactics. Sometimes out of pure frustration Philosopher will try to explain to him the failed logistics of his situation, or Therapist will attempt to penetrate the psychological origins of his obduracy, but, ever unfathomable, Ferrous Cranus cannot be moved.

Armilnov received the honor primarily for the Cranus-like behavior in his insistence that DailyKos is worse than Al-Qaeda over on his blog, then later for his posts here in the Chamber. Just like Ferrous Cranus, no movement could be made no matter how much reason was applied to the wacky arguments that were presented.  Had armilnov’s arguments been a little less, well, out there, he might have at least earned the Tireless Rebutter label.  Unfortunately, it wasn’t to be.

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24 comments

  1. Spot-on.


  2. ChenZhen,

    I regularly post on dozens of blogs and I have encountered posters like the one you describe here.

    I have also encountered a special breed that defies label: they pretend to be liberal or progressive, but in fact, exhibit racist, sexist and homophobic leanings.

    Sometimes, they are regulars on a blog and engage in doppleganger behavior. They post under they’re common screen name, then reappear in 3 minutes posting as they’re alter ego to bolster a position.

    I’m usually pretty good with names and labels but this type of oddball defies all reason to me.


  3. Oops: they’re s/b “their.”


  4. I did read your discussion with Armilnov and , as you know, I was disagree with both you .
    this comment and this comment
    Indeed, it does not matter who is better who is worse al kaida or daily kos but it is undeniable that Al kaida and Daily Kos are on the same position on the many issues. (I did prove it to you on the case of position toward Israel during our discussion on Golos ) .

    “no movement could be made no matter how much reason was applied”
    What reason? ! All your “ reasoning ” is as follows
    1. DK has a right to do what they do : what is irrelevant because nobody is arguing with that
    2. there is hate speech on other blogs as well what is irrelevant because this conversation was not about hate speech per se. This conversation was about supporting with the hate speech positions similar to Al kaida’s. And there no other blogs in blogospeheter closer in its positions to Al kaida than Daily Kos. Therefore hate speech on daily kos is an issue because hate speech on daily kos match in its ideology to Al kaida on many positions ) ( example : hatred to Israel, hatred to capitalism and hatred to USA policy )
    3. DK has hate speech only occasionally : what is proven to be not true ( read just for example the protocols of the daily kos” on LGF with well documented hate speech against Israel on DK . there are many other examples well documented of hate speech on the DK

    What is interesting is that you whos tolerance to daily Kos is unshakable neither by facts nor by arguments. But where is your tolerance toward those who are against daily Kos? Arguments that you could not argue with, you just consider “wacky” and dismissing them . May be you found the time to make a comment with caricatures and links ridiculing an opponent just because you cannot withstand any discussion with me on his blog? I repeat again, I am still waiting for your response on my comment posted on golos ( this time with arguments please)


  5. This is hilarious.

    Indeed, it does not matter who is better who is worse al kaida or daily kos but it is undeniable that Al kaida and Daily Kos are on the same position on the many issues. (I did prove it to you on the case of position toward Israel during our discussion on Golos ) .

    One more time…WHAT POSITION ON ISRAEL? My God. To you have any clue what you’re talking about? There are thousands and thousands of diaries on DK. Finding a couple dozen random diaries over the last 5 years DOES NOT INDICATE A “POSITION”. The only official position is pro-Democrat. that’s it.

    I don’t understand why I have to make an argument on this. The entire debate is ridiculous in it’s premise, simply because of the way the website works. You can find dozens and dozens of diaries on pretty much any subject. Any subject, just pick one. Let’s say …tobacco. Go ahead. See if you can determine what the official DK position on that is.

    good grief.

    Besides, who are you to say that you’re an expert on al-Qaeda’s positions? Do you speak for them?

    I love this assumption that because DK is anti-Bush it means that they share the same position as al Qaeda. I think bin Laden loves Bush. The Iraq invasion was the gift that keep on giving for the jihadis.


  6. ” who are you to say that you’re an expert on al-Qaeda’s positions? Do you speak for them? “
    Here we go ! of course I am al kaida! I am bin laden, why ? because I do not agree therefore I am al kaida, who else?. Common , do not be so frightened, calm down and most importantly, please, do not write a profile on me it will be really horrible:)
    About Daily Kos protocols on LGF:
    1.
    “ I don’t understand why I have to make an argument on this. The entire debate is ridiculous in it’s premise, simply because of the way the website works. You can find dozens and dozens of diaries on pretty much any subject. Any subject, just pick one.

    Our debate is ridiculous because you are not responding on my arguments courageously skipping them
    I did respond to you few days ago :
    please read:

    ChenZhen There is no official position on Israel on DK
    voter
    May be there is no official position on dk . It is irrelevant and not what we are talking about. We are talking about that anti-Israeli sentiment, which is the mainstream de-facto line of writing on the DK. To say that only “few” dairies are critical of Israel is bluntly not true. The anti Israel trend on DK is well documented. The Protocols of the Daily Kos are not just “postings on LGF “ as you said , the protocols are documentation, it is proof of anti Israeli policy as the ” de facto” mainstream thinking on the DK.
    ChenZhenThere is not a whole lot to stop someone from posting something like that.
    voterMay be so . So what ? It means only one thing – that majority of writers, members of daily kos, hate Israel as Al kaida does.
    So I did answer your loud ( I mean capitalization) cry many times: “WHAT POSITION ON ISRAEL?”
    De-facto position, Position of DK writers. DK does not have official ( meaning publicly declared) position on Israel? May be so ! But DK writes have position and this position is just happened to be the same as al kaida’s such a coincidence. what are you going to do? .
    OK now. it is your turn to tell again that “Finding a couple dozen random diaries over the last 5 years DOES NOT INDICATE A “POSITION”. The only official position is pro-Democrat. that’s it.”
    commenting on the Golos you formulated the same thing even more sharp: “The “Protocols” that LGF features really aren’t anything more than an exercise in cherry-picking diaries in an attempt to paint DK as an anti-semitic site.”

    Are you accusing LGF in cherry picking information and in distorting honest image of DK? So LGF is distorting the truth in its Protocols? Is it what you are saying ?
    Between your defense of DK and LGF exposing the anti- Israeli bias among DK writers , no surprise, LGF is more convincing. Protocols had no goal to list all anti- Israeli comments on DK ( who would be interested to dig in dirt?) comments LGF did are present are sufficient to show the trend.
    So we are going over same circle again :
    I do agree that our discussion is getting ridiculous because you are saying over and over again same thing no matter how much reason was applied to your …. arguments that you presented🙂
    2.
    I love this assumption that because DK is anti-Bush it means that they share the same position as al Qaeda.
    I never said that . In this case you are talking with yourself . FYI I am anti- bush myself. But DK is different. They hate bush that much that they would rather see him loose with all country going down , just to satisfy their paranoid hatred and to get themselves to power. This is why so many times you can see on DK openly anti-American statements ( of course no official policy on that either , just a coincidence )
    3.
    why it is so important ?

    According to you term ‘fascist’ “gets thrown around as a slur to label someone as an authoritarian right winger”
    But you (one more time again) either ill-informed or disingenuous . Let me remind you that Hitler, was a leader of National Socialist Workers Party ( NSWP) Is SOCIALIST WORKERS right wing for you ??
    Fascism did originate itself as a socialist movement , may be this is a reason of the gravity of socialists from DK to fascist from al kaida


  7. Chen,

    Don’t waste your time. Of course I say that, and then tomorrow I’ll engage someone in a similar debate, but because I’m not personally involved it’s easier to be objective.

    Such claims as the wingnuts make about Daily Kos are only meant to inflame. The truth, accuracy and even reality matter little. All they have to do is instill an idea through repetition, and “Presto Zippo” it is now “fact.”

    Anyone who continues to support Bush has a lot of nerve questioning the “Patriotism” etc of someone else. The man has used the Constitution like a diaper, and treats accountability and consequences much in the same way Leona Hemsley did, “They’re for the little people.”

    These people are zealots, fools and as a wise man once said, “You cannot reason with a fool, and only a fool would even try.”


  8. 2008voter-

    Are you accusing LGF in cherry picking information and in distorting honest image of DK? So LGF is distorting the truth in its Protocols? Is it what you are saying ?
    Between your defense of DK and LGF exposing the anti- Israeli bias among DK writers , no surprise, LGF is more convincing. Protocols had no goal to list all anti- Israeli comments on DK ( who would be interested to dig in dirt?) comments LGF did are present are sufficient to show the trend.
    So we are going over same circle again :
    I do agree that our discussion is getting ridiculous because you are saying over and over again same thing no matter how much reason was applied to your …. arguments that you presented

    When you feature anti-Israel diaries, and ignore the pro-Israel ones, it is a distortion. It’s like saying that America is inhabited by Sam Brownback supporters because over the last 5 years you’ve managed to find a few dozen people that said they would vote for him.

    There are plenty of pro-Jew, pro-Israel dairies on there. Others seem to be indifferent to the I/P situation. I kind of doubt that you’ve bothered to check it out for yourself though (as you seem to have accepted the “protocols” as the proof).


  9. “But you (one more time again) either ill-informed or disingenuous . Let me remind you that Hitler, was a leader of National Socialist Workers Party ( NSWP) Is SOCIALIST WORKERS right wing for you ??”

    You need to read up a bit on history. Who was it that was exterminated in the concentration camps along with Jews, Sinti and Roma, Homosexuals and dissidents? Right, socialists and communists.
    What are most of today’s Neo-Nazis? Exactly, right-wing extremists

    My intention isn’t to put decent right-wingers down, but the fact stands that the NSDAP was a extreme right-wing project that went horribly wrong. Saying Hitler was a left-winger is downright ignorant of history.


  10. Hitler referred to Socialism and Communism as “Jewish movements,” and I’m fairly certain he didn’t like Jews.

    Hitler supported Fascists in Italy (Mussolini) and in Spain (Franco). He saw the Russian Revolution as a threat, and despised Stalin and the Communists. He invaded and attacked “Socialist” nations.

    Right wingers from all over the world supported Hitler including people right here in the good old US. Henry Ford, the KKK and Prescott Bush are a few fine examples. Are you saying Ford, the KKK and Bush are “Socialists,” “Left-wingers?”

    If LGF is considered a “legitimate” source of information God help us all.


  11. to fairlane
    “Right wingers from all over the world supported Hitler including people right here in the good old US. Henry Ford, the KKK and Prescott Bush are a few fine examples. Are you saying Ford, the KKK and Bush are “Socialists,” “Left-wingers?”
    No it is not what I am saying I am saying that :
    1. left radical and right radicals are alike in methods and ideological formulas( similarities between communist states and fascists states are obvious to anybody who bothered to read history)
    2. fascism and communism are both product of ideology of socialism
    “If LGF is considered a “legitimate” source of information God help us all.”
    Any source of information is legitimate for me as far as the information is supported by facts and arguments. When you are dismissing the sources as not trust worthy because you do not like facts provided by source then… God help you, indeed.
    .


  12. to Sphinx:
    “You need to read up a bit on history. Who was it that was exterminated in the concentration camps along with Jews, Sinti and Roma, Homosexuals and dissidents? Right, socialists and communists.”
    really? Stalin killed the 80 % of Russian communists does it make him a fascist? Does Stalin’s and Lenin’s and Mao’s killing of fellow communists make them less of communists? When socialists are killing each other it does not mean they are not socialist any more!!! One more time : National Socialist Workers Party ( NSWP) Is SOCIALIST WORKERS right wing for you ?? This is a concrete question
    “Saying Hitler was a left-winger is downright ignorant of history.”
    When did I say that? You are trying to distort my words and twist what I am saying. What I did say is that “Fascism did originate itself as a socialist movement” Prove me wrong! Read Marx’s description of German socialism in his Manifesto of Communist party


  13. to fairlane:
    “Hitler referred to Socialism and Communism as “Jewish movements,” and I’m fairly certain he didn’t like Jews.”
    Hitler did not like Jews? This is the news!! Now I see what you guys meant by knowing history. Very impressive historical finding! OK , Hitler did not like Jews ! So what ? Same daily Kos: read Daily Kos protocols


  14. to ChenZhen and to Florian :
    chen Zsen LGF protocols was not only example I gave you and to be dismissive
    You can call l your opponents zealots fools and post profiles and caricatures on them . this is what Joseph Goebbels did and this is how soviet propaganda did operate. This is a free country and being rude and dismissive to logic is not against the law . You can dismiss LGF you can dismiss everything you do not like (and you will)
    Sometimes out of pure frustration I am trying to explain you the failed logics of your situation, but you guys ever unfathomable and cannot be moved. , say hello to Ferrous Cranus


  15. “One more time : National Socialist Workers Party ( NSWP) Is SOCIALIST WORKERS right wing for you ?? This is a concrete question”

    I think you and I will agree that the best way to describe a party is by its actions, and not by its name. In “1984” It was called “Big Brother” after all, but he wasn’t really a brother to the people.
    The NSDAP program is clearly on the far right-wing side of politics. And Stalin was the very definition of a fascist, along with Mussolini and Hitler.

    Maybe I misunderstood you, but you were definitely suggesting that Hitler and his party were not right wingers. Again, this has nothing to do with decent right-wingers, but Hitler was the scummiest type of them.


  16. to The Sphinx :
    1.
    Stalin was the very definition of a fascist, along with Mussolini and Hitler.

    I do agree! It means that Stalin, Mussolini and Hitler are the same! Thus, Mussolini and Hitler as much were communists as Stalin was a fascist . Meaning that leftist radicalism has the same nature as a right radicalism They both are potential fascisms. Therefore Leftists radicalism has to be confronted same way as a fascism.
    2.
    “Hitler was the scummiest type of them.”

    I challenge you to disclose your criteria: why you think that Stalin is better than Hitler? Just because Stalin is left wing ? Explain please why you think that left wing is better than right one?

    Left wing radicalism is the bloodiest through the history. Prove me wrong : overall through the history the most casualties was inflicted by left wing radicals: just Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot killed together way more people than Hitler Franco and Mussolini did .
    3.
    The NSDAP program is clearly on the far right-wing side of politics.
    Really? You was a one who lectured me that I “need to read up a bit on history”.Did you really read the program?

    FYI: the main motto of Hitler’s party was the COMMON GOOD BEFORE INDIVIDUAL GOOD . What is so “right wing” about that ? Sounds like a Dennis Kucinich to me ! It is pure, classical socialism!!! Sounds like a good slogan for Hillary Clinton ! Am I wrong??
    Look selections from the NSDAP program below ( which are essentially more that 50% of the program itself ) :

    • That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.
    • The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. No individual shall do any work that offends against the interest of the community to the benefit of all.
    • Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits.
    • We demand the nationalization of all trusts.
    • We demand profit-sharing in large industries
    • We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.
    • We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalization of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small tradespeople, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.

    This is my favorite: I dedicate this particular excerpt to Michael Moore and to Hillary Clinton ( form me personally) :

    The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centers, by prohibiting juvenile labor, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young.

    http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/nsdappro.htm
    Now I challenge you to tell me which parts from listed above articles from NSDAP program is (as you said) ” clearly on the far right-wing side of politics ??
    Indulge me please!


  17. “Therefore Leftists radicalism has to be confronted same way as a fascism.”

    I never said it shouldn’t. Hope you didn’t think I did.

    “I challenge you to disclose your criteria: why you think that Stalin is better than Hitler? Just because Stalin is left wing ? Explain please why you think that left wing is better than right one?”

    You got me completely wrong there. I never said Stalin was better than Hitler. When I said “scummiest type of them“, I was referring to right wingers in general. Had nothing to do with Mussolini or Stalin anymore.

    “Really? You was a one who lectured me that I “need to read up a bit on history”.Did you really read the program?”

    I graduated from a German high-school, we had a bit more than one semester of history class devoted entirely to the third reich. So yes, we thoroughly discussed this program.

    “Now I challenge you to tell me which parts from listed above articles from NSDAP program is (as you said) ” clearly on the far right-wing side of politics ??
    Indulge me please!”

    Ok here goes:

    A typical characteristic of right-wing extremists are that they reject a parliamentary and constitutional form of government in favour of an authoritarian form of government that leads the so-called “community of the people”. This was known in Germany as “Volksgemeinschaft”. This is opposite of the radical left-wing tendencies to anarchism.
    Anyway you can see this notion in the second part of point 6.

    You’ll also remember that one of the first steps Hitler took after he grasped power was to push the enabling act through, in order to practically shut down all powers of the Reichstag, a major step towards totalitarianism.

    Furthermore, this idea of a people’s community comes hand in hand with the idea of the inequality of ethnicity and races, as the rejection of multiculturalism. Right-wing extremists often use all this as a justification for their nationalism and feeling of superiority over other nations and people.
    They feel it’s necessary to establish a large national identity that’s strictly clear of all inferior elements. All that is clearly represented in point 1, points 3 through 8, 23(c) and 24.

    An interesting point is No. 11. This is the complete opposite of your typical communist society, where everybody earns the same, regardless of how much or how little they work. Theoretically if you were lazy, you could earn a good amount of “unearned income”.
    Point 13 is also the opposite of what you’d expect of communism. Here, it’s a transfer of trusts to state ownership, and in communism/socialism, it’s the transfer of private and state ownership into public ownership.

    I could go on, but I have to leave now, sorry. I hope this showed you my point of view though. I’ll be back later if you want me to elaborate more.


  18. The Sphinx

    1. I am not saying that communism and fascism are identical. I am saying that communism and fascism ( as different as they are ) essentially are just different forms of the same ideology : socialism , Fascism and communism have similar declared goal : COMMON GOOD BEFORE INDIVIDUAL GOOD. State above individual. This is my point. From that stand point they are alike
    2. You left my question not answered : tell me which articles from NSDAP program are right wing?
    3.i insist that articles I listed from NSDAP program are closer today to the left than to the right.
    To be precise:
    I challenge you to name me one single person on the right who is pro
    increasing ensions
    , communalization of large stores
    The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health” state sponsored medicine hello Hillary!!

    next point:
    Voter: “Therefore Leftists radicalism has to be confronted same way as a fascism.”
    Sphinx ”I never said it shouldn’t. ”
    it mean that when Dialy Kos play the role of a platform for left wing radicals they are moving toward fascism/communism and they have to be confronted.

    The rest are details. But even in details there are more similarities between fascism and communism than you want to see.
    “A typical characteristic of right-wing extremists are that they reject a parliamentary and constitutional form of government in favour of an authoritarian form of government that leads the so-called “community of the people”. This was known in Germany as “Volksgemeinschaft”. This is opposite of the radical left-wing tendencies to anarchism.”
    1. First of all what is important is that in your example anarchism and fascism are rejecting “parliamentary and constitutional form of government in favor of an authoritarian form of government” if anarchism offering something different from fascism as a replacement . But correct me if I am wrong , anarchism same way as fascism “ reject a parliamentary and constitutional form of government They just see alternatives differently.
    2. Second of all comparison of fascism on the right with anarchism on the left is incorrect. Anarchism is very different among leftists movements ( i would say unique) It equally oppose to communism and to fascism. Anarchism never had a state under control or never controlled politically entire country. So, it cannot be compared with fascism. Let us compare fascism with those socialists movements which materialized in actual state building practice: Maoism, communism in Lenin-Stalin-style, Trotskyism. All of them are in the same way as fascist are proponents of authoritarian form of government ( so called dictatorship of proletariat). So from that stand point there is no difference between communism and fascism either and your example with anarchism is misleading.
    You’ll also remember that one of the first steps Hitler took after he grasped power was to push the enabling act through, in order to practically shut down all powers of the Reichstag, a major step towards totalitarianism
    The very same thing did Bolsheviks in 1917 they did dismiss Russian revolutionary parliament (uchredititelnoe sobranie) so there is no difference in that either.

    I can give you more on details later but one more time again
    1. those are details
    2. you are not answering so far my main question: which parts from listed in my previous comment articles from NSDAP program is (as you said) ” clearly on the far right-wing side of politics ?? Be specific please.


  19. Did you actually read all what I said? I quoted the exact numbers of the 25 points on the NSDAP program you sent me and said what is extremist right-wing and not left-wing about them. Read them again.


  20. The Sphinx,

    I’ll give you credit for being a very patient person, as 2008 contradicts him/herself, changes what they say, plays semantic games etc.

    However, surely by now you see, per my first comment, that it is a complete bloody waste of time.

    The Right in the U.S., I’m not sure if you live here since you said you went to a German school, has tried for decades to pass Hitler off onto the Left.

    Anyone who knows about the Nazis understands this is complete nonsense, but most people know little, and when they hear the word “Socialism” they assume that means Leftist.

    2008 will never concede any of your points. They will simply continue to expand the conversation ad nauseam.

    I’m not trying to tell you what to do, by all means continue to try and reason with 2008, but
    what are you even arguing about at this point?

    2008- “I am not saying that.”

    How many times have they written that Sphinx? Ten times? This conversation will never end unless you stop or capitulate.


  21. Thanks for your comment Fairlane, in fact I have 500 pages of studying waiting for me that have to be finished in the next 3 weeks, so I’ll probably dive down and resurface when I have more time.

    I have no problems with debating, but I do have a problem with saying things twice, which is why I did and will not repeat what I said before.

    My school was in Cairo/Egypt, one of many German schools that are scattered worldwide. They made sure to teach us this historical lesson very well. Now I live in Germany and have seen very often that “Radical right-wing” is practically a synonym to “Neonazi”. I’ve never been to the US which makes it harder for me to grasp the political ways of thinking over there.

    Thanks again


  22. Sphinx,
    “Did you actually read all what I said? I quoted the exact numbers of the 25 points on the NSDAP program you sent me and said what is extremist right-wing and not left-wing about them.
    I sure did.

    Sphinx, read this carefully:
    My question was about articles 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 and 21 which are undeniably socialist in nature and not a right wing by any stretch.
    The problem is that I am asking you about articles 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 and 21 while you choose to talk about articles 3-8, 10, 11, 23(c) and 24. So, essentially I am asking you about one set of articles and you are answering about another, completely different set.
    It is such a fun to talk to you guys!

    We did overlapped only on the point #11 ( sorry I overlooked this one) : ”That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.”
    Why do you think that “this is the complete opposite of your typical communist society”?
    What is your source of information on that? It is exactly how it was in the USSR: all income that did not arise from work, was abolished in the USSR. I am telling you this as someone who lived in USSR for 30 years. You are wrong about that point #11 is a typical communists feature. They even had a special term for that. Translating from Russian they called it “no-work related income“.
    So you just plain wrong on that one
    One more time:
    My question is about points 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 and 21.
    These points are pure, classical socialism and so far you are not taking about these point at all, despite all my efforts.


  23. to Fairlane:
    Respect of people like you would be a huge liability for me. Therefore, as long as you are rude and offensive to me, it means that I am on the correct track. You are incapable to talk about the subject anyway.
    Considering that you are big socialist and that according to your doctrine it is expected “from each according to his ability”, there is nothing to expect from you anyway .


  24. I apologise, but, in my opinion, you are not right. I am assured. Write to me in PM, we will discuss.

    By the way, what do you think about this icons site?



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