My 1½ Years At LGF, Part I: Anti-Muslim Rhetoric

October 17, 2007

It’s no secret that LGF takes heat from both the media and bloggers alike for their constant diatribe about all things Islamic.  Since I didn’t come into the site knowing what it was all about, I’ll admit that I was pretty surprised by it. Initially, I figured that it was irrational fear borne in the ashes of the September 11th attacks.  I wasn’t really offended by all the Muslim bashing that went on in the comments section (I’m not offended easily), and I certainly didn’t go into the site with the intention of “defending” Islam, so while I was there I rarely offered up an opinion on those threads.  I do know (now) that it was, for the most part, the reason why many referred to LGF as a “hate site” (a label that Charles and the rest of the lizards predictably took issue with), and the usual comeback offered up in the comments section went something like “Well, if that means hating those who want to convert you to Islam, kill you, force you into slavery, chop off your head, etc., then, yea, this is a hate site”.

The most glaring problem with this argument is the fact that there are a fair amount of threads about Arabs and Muslims that have nothing to do with terrorism, a worldwide caliphate, or even “sudden jihadi syndrome”.  One thread I recall, Pigophobia in the UAE, clearly had no other point other than amusing the lizard minions with a story about Muslim’s aversion to swine.  The aforementioned comeback loses quite a bit of credibility when you see this kind of thing.  (the defense is also slightly hampered by the fact that LGF has it’s own dictionary of terms, many of them disparaging and originating on the site)

To his credit, you’d be very hard pressed to find anything that Charles himself posts in any given thread that someone might view as blatantly bigoted.  But on the other hand, there are plenty of regular commentors who don’t parse their words nearly as carefully, and the same could be said about many on the list of featured “anti-idiotarians” in the blogroll.  Intentionally or not, the result of all this is a place that attracts the type of people who are looking for affirmation of their own anti-Muslim prejudices, and the comments often reflect that.

This brings me back to the “Pigophobia” thread, where after quite a few comments that had to be deleted, Charles responded:

A note: I am absolutely fed up with posts that advocate rounding up all Muslims and/or illegal aliens and putting them in camps, or that use bigoted language. I do not agree with this kind of crap, it drags the site down, and those comments are not welcome here.

I’m not going to take the heat for it any more — I’m simply going to start blocking people who do it.

Should the appearance of bigoted comments in a thread with “Pigophobia” in the title be that surprising?  I mean, come on.

When confronted, the LGFers would have you believe that the overall mission is to spread the word about the dangers of radical Islam in an effort to make a contribution to the greater “War on Terror”.  They’ll tell you that those who belittle the threat are choosing to be willfully ignorant, have their head in the sand, or fall for the false virtue of political correctness.  For what it’s worth, I think that they really do believe that their efforts are noble, and in the interest of “saving the world“.  To me, however, the site tends to read more like a scavenger hunt for tales of Muslims doing bad things than a place that makes a legitimate effort to combat Islamic terrorism.  It’s not like they’re pouring over pro-al Qaeda websites with translators looking to uncover details on plots and strategy, after all.  Instead, the posts appear to be an attempt to build the argument that Islam itelf is the underlying problem (and the real enemy).  And as well-intentioned as they might consider themselves to be, there is a real counterproductivity with this.  The notion (however vaguely interpreted) that the West is at war with Islam is propaganda that al Qaeda has been spreading.  Even George Bush recognizes that this is a road that we don’t want to take:

“My country desires peace,” Bush told world leaders in the cavernous main hall at the U.N. “Extremists in your midst spread propaganda claiming that the West is engaged in a war against Islam. This propaganda is false and its purpose is to confuse you and justify acts of terror. We respect Islam.”

In conclusion, I sit back and wonder sometimes if the rantings of the “anti-idiotarians” really are just contributing to the problem, and not part of the solution.

Tomorrow’s topic:

Israel/Palestine Conflict and Antisemitism


  1. Huh? Yes, Islam is part of the problem. By that I do not mean that all Muslims are part of the problem. But the fact remains that there are hate mosques found all over the world. Why, my own friend Adil, an ex-Muslim, was threatened in Birmingham, England, when going to his neighborhood mosque. I have a friend who spent 2 1/2 years in so-called “moderate” Bahrain, where she encountered very troubling radicalism on the rise. I even know people who hail from my own neighborhood who support Islamic terror. So make no mistake about it. Support for Islamic terror is not limited to “those crazies over in the Middle East.”

    Does that mean that Islamofascism being preached in thousands of mosques across the world is “true Islam”? Who the hell knows what “true Islam” really is? Was Muhammad a good man or a bad man? I reply with asking whether we can we even know whether Muhammad existed.

    There are many good Muslims out there in the world who do not believe that Sharia should replace the constitution, and do not support suicide bombing. I doubt you would find many people, including those at LGF, disputing that. But Islamic hatred of the West is also not limited to a “tiny minority of extremists,” and anyone who says so is willfully blind to the state of the world.

    Where is the mass movement of Muslims who reject terror without equivocation? Can you show such a movement to me?

  2. “Yes, Islam is part of the problem.”

    No it’s not. Face it, I can tell you a hundred times more about Islam than you can tell me. If Islam was part of the problem as you said, I’d be a terrorist. Along with my family. Beside all my friends who are devout Muslims as well. My entire society in Egypt would be crawling with violent terrorists, but for some reason it’s not.

    “But the fact remains that there are hate mosques found all over the world.

    .. and hate churches, and hate synagogues, and, and, and.. What do you want to do about it?

    Does that mean that Islamofascism being preached in thousands of mosques across the world is “true Islam”? Who the hell knows what “true Islam” really is? Was Muhammad a good man or a bad man? I reply with asking whether we can we even know whether Muhammad existed.

    To answer all that, you need to have extensive knowledge about Islam, that you have to gather for a very, very long time. It can take years.

    And no, Robert Spencer doesn’t qualify as somebody I consider to have extensive knowledge, because often he seems to have no idea what he’s talking about. And either he’s conveniently leaving significant details out of his analysis that would completely shatter his logic, or he’s simply ignorant of these. Both equally shameful for somebody who calls himself an expert.

    “But Islamic hatred of the West is also not limited to a “tiny minority of extremists,” and anyone who says so is willfully blind to the state of the world.”

    Ever asked yourself “Why?” an average non-extremist Muslim doesn’t like “the West”?

    Simple example: Personally, I think your US government’s policy is pure rubbish, beside the Israeli government policy as well. Nothing to do with any religious beliefs I stand for. Doesn’t include the average Joe from a western society either.

    This applies to loads of Muslims from the middle east. It’s as simple as that.

    “Where is the mass movement of Muslims who reject terror without equivocation? Can you show such a movement to me?”

    No, the better question would be: Why isn’t the media showing these Muslims who reject terror? Do you know every one of the 1.5 billion Muslims? No. Did you live in a Muslim society? No. I did, and will tell you – again – that there are enough Muslims everywhere who don’t support terrorism, simply because Islam itself does not advocate terrorism. Twist the facts around as much as you like, it won’t change this one in the least.

    However though, I will still stand by the fact that a verbal condemnation of terrorism from Muslims worldwide would be positive, but nevertheless completely ineffective. A terrorist really couldn’t care less about what people say about him.

    “In conclusion, I sit back and wonder sometimes if the rantings of the “anti-idiotarians” really are just contributing to the problem, and not part of the solution.”

    If you ask me, they are indeed contributing a way to the problem. If I get back to this topic on why many of your average Alis from the middle east don’t like “the west”.. Let’s ignore the interventionalist and imperialist policy of “the west”, the completely unnecessary wars launched on “our” lands and a subtle will to undermine “our” societies.
    Many times you’ll ask a regular Muslim what he doesn’t like about the west, and they’ll reply: “Because they discriminate us and treat us all like terrorists”.
    I’ve been singled out and given the special treatment several times because of my middle eastern appearance, and it just pisses me off. But anyway

    Whereas it may be understandable that a Western fellow has this image of a “despicable Muslim” who supports terrorism and the destruction of all Western societies, it’s equally understandable for a Muslim to have this image of a “despicable American”, who cheers on to wars in the Middle East, supports the nuking of Islamic sites and the destruction of the Islamic societies and religion.

    And while Red Tulips keeps bringing on examples of extremist Islam, LGF grandiously qualifies as a prime example of people who would fall under this category, many of which would undoubtedly engage happily in acts of violence against Muslims or Arabs and/or support their genocide.

    I won’t be commenting on this post again, because with all respect to you Red Tulips, I’ve said these things many times before, and every time the discussion spirals into infinity. I have to be studying now, so see you all in another thread.

  3. I will reply to Sphinx’s ducking of the obvious very easily…

    1. Most violence perpetuated by Muslims is Muslim-on-Muslim violence. Do you see a mass movement decrying this? No.

    2. There absolutely is not a mass movement of Christians on Jews urging the slaughter of Muslims. Saying somehow that a few random synagogues or churches is equivalent to the many thousands of hate mosques in the world is the height of moral relativism as well as willful blindness.

    3. Jews and Christians are not okay with using little children as human meat fodder to kill civilians. Jews and Christians are not okay with the purposeful slaughter of civilians. In contrast, mainstream Muslims, including Tariq Ramadan, explicitly has said it is okay to kill infidel civilians.

    4. I never once said whether Islam is theologically bad to the core. I never said it because I am not equipped to say this. I would like to be an optimist and say that Islam can be reformed and is not bad to its core. But that is a seperate question from whether the Islam, AS BEING PRACTICED BY MUSLIMS TODAY, is problematic. And it is. There would not be thousands of hate mosques, worldwide, if there was no problem.

    5. Sphinx, you claim you have a problem with the way “the West” treats Islam and Muslims. Yet I see not a single millimeter of your energy directed at the evil of Iran or Saudi Arabia, or the degenerates running Hamas and Fatah. I have not ever seen you condemn the Sudanese government, which is sponsoring a genocide of Muslims in Sudan. Where is your outrage? If you are so appalled at the human rights abuses perpetuated against Muslims, why do you remain completely silent when Muslims kill other Muslims?

    In truth, any and everything “the West” has done towards dar-al-Islam is nothing in comparison to the way Muslims treat fellow Muslims. I will grant you one exception, and that is Russia. Russia is treating the Chechens abominably, and that is the ONLY valid cause for concern you might have regarding “the West.”

    But…oops. Putin is aligned with Iran and recently publicly stated as such.

    Where is your outrage again? I would like to see it.

  4. I would like to add one more thing, Sphinx.

    I can understand why you would be upset that you are singled out for extra screening measures at airports, as that is annoying. But this “upsetness” should be aimed at those who CAUSE you to have to deal with extra screening to begin with: i.e., the human butchers who are perpetuating a jihad against the West. They are the ones who give Muslims a bad name.

    If most Muslims in the world disavowed themselves from the scum such as Al Queda, Hizballah, Hamas, Fatah, Hizb-al-Tahrir, the Muslim Brotherhood, etc…

    Then you would not have to endure extra screening at the airport.

    I understand you being upset at the EFFECT of Islamic terrorism (extra screenings at airports), but why do you not spend your energy worried about the CAUSE of the screenings?

  5. In my opinion Islam is not a religion. It is primarily a war manual proposing the destruction of Christians and Jews. Mohammed was a soldier and led troops against the infidels. He was no prophet.

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