…And Now For A Little Vindication

June 4, 2008

Every once and awhile I catch something in my various RSS feeds that I find interesting, and today it was this link on my Think Progress ticker:  Iraqi Parliamentarian: 70 Percent Of Iraqis Want Withdrawal, Huge U.S. Embassy Not A ‘Positive Signal’

I guess it grabbed my attention because I was immediately reminded of something that I posted last year (October, specifically):

$750 million? For an embassy? In Baghdad? No wonder the Iraqis are resisting the occupation so passionately. It’s hard to believe that Saddam had anything that extravagantly large. I mean, what the hell would you think if you were an Iraqi looking at this:


I would think that it would send quite a message. It looks like we’re building our own acropolis in their capital.

I hate it when I’m right.

Err..um…I mean “correct”.

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  1. Assuming you’re right, err…I mean ‘correct’, isn’t this good news that 70% of Iraqis are ready for us to leave? I doubt they would want us to leave unless they felt safe enough for their own government and military to run the country effectively.

    I would wager General that 99% of the normal Joe Iraqis would prefer we keep a small presence and if this is all we ‘occupy’ for the price of our sacrifice, then there is more to the picture here than I believe you are seeing.

    Tells me the surge may have worked a lot better than most of you libbies will admit and maybe this is just another indicator of our success, not failure.

    Even us wingnuts want the troops to come home ASAP – but only when they’re convinced the Iraqis can manage themselves. When Petraeus says it’s over, then it’s over.

    P.S. – Thanks for your help from the previous post. As I told you, time draws short for me goofing off and I have appreciated your friendship.

  2. Tex-

    Now that’s some spin! I like it.

    And speaking of being reminded of my previous posts, when I read this

    When Petraeus says it’s over, then it’s over.

    I couldn’t help but think of this.

  3. Chen,

    I actually found that comic funny. However, there was no intention of spin and helps to explain why you and I think far differently. What did you want the military to do? Build a YMCA with some barb wire in the parking lot?

    If I were President, the last thing I would think we would need would be about 25MM Iraqi citizens holding on to our collective apron string. Shouldn’t the collective goal be for them to want us to eventually go home?

    How are we going to consider the mission a success if we leave it in the shape of say 50MM helpless, Obama worshipping libs living from somebody else’s pocket book?

    I would consider the Iraqi mission an abject failure if we can’t teach the Iraqis to manage their own lives any better than the American left, possibly the most helpless humans this side of newborns.

    In the theatre of my mind, here is an example of what I think of when I think of the success of progressives and 70 years of Dimocratic gov’t:

  4. As far back as 2004 57% of Iraqis polled wanted the US/Coalition forces OUT.
    Nadeem Al Jabeeri is aligned with Al Sadr. It is shocking he is afforded credibility from the House.
    Ayatollah Sistani truly the big cheese in Iraq was all newsworthy over the fatwa against feeding and selling goods to US forces. Where are the bloggers when he is constructively working with Maliki and the US over the security pact that’ll help get us out of there ?
    Lastly the embassy is huge but isn’t the pariah everyone wants one to believe.It is clearly an investment in the region. Although it is an eyesore (symbolically) to some and a bit of a middle finger to others there are Iraqis that see it as a symbol of good.
    Also the construction scope is only somewhat out of line with what embassies are destined for.
    Anyway a better and fairer article on the subject :

  5. Alfie, Alfie, Alfie,

    Also the construction scope is only somewhat out of line with what embassies are destined for.

    You must learn that rational thinking and logic are not part of the Dhimmicratic party lexicon. You will never get anywhere trying to reason. Sound bites ‘fer the children’, cliche, and messages with feeling like ‘Hope and Change’ are the only important measure.

    Oh, and abortion. They love abortion; the later, the better!

  6. General,

    On a funny note, I accidently clicked to the Revolting Puke’s ‘ping’ and out of morbid curiosity, went to his revolting McCain post which I swore I wouldn’t do again. Lying to myself…a new low.

    There was some, poor Conservative sap there who wasn’t even making a ruckus like your’s truly. He was simply and politely disagreeing or just asking questions and got banished.

    This Revolting Puke Pawn and his toadies Matthew and Rutherfordl may be the lamest, lib wienies I’ve witnessed. Man, who I wish I could bait these slugs into a slugfest. It would take 3 minutes to run them off permanently with their tail between their legs. And I’m running out of time…

  7. Normally I agree with Tex, but on the issue of the military deciding when wars are over, I have a different opinion.

    Wars are fought by the military, but they are started by politicians. And just as they are started by politicians, they must be ended by politicians. I agree that those politicians should absolutely consult their military leaders, both before starting wars and ending them, but the military opinion on the matter should not be the only factor taken into account.

    In my opinion, the best reason for this policy is that the military will always want a complete and total victory, while politicians may be more apt to accept certain levels of victory. In the more “traditional” wars of the past (WWI, WWII) the former was an easy choice. However, with concepts like “The War on Terror,” the latter is something that needs more attention. This differs from a more liberal view because most of today’s liberals seem to be looking at this issue as acceptable levels of defeat (cutting losses) rather than victory.

    @Chen, As usual my first thoughts concerning poll numbers are who exactly was polled, how many were polled, and what exactly was the poll question?

    Also, “withdrawal” seems to indicate removal of military presence. Embacies don’t house armies, they house diplomats. In order to have that diplomacy that liberals have been screaming about for the last 5 years, we need diplomats in the area.

  8. Red,

    Actually, we are not in complete disagreement, though we may be measure. IMHO, the only opinion of real value in deciding when this war has been won is the one doing the fighting and closest to the war – WWII being the example I would follow because I think the war on terror vis-a-vis WWII best paralleling what will be required.

    This will necessitate more than a letter of intent and a hearty handshake around the round table amongst the so called leaders of the free world.

    One of the real tragedies of this war and one of my biggest beefs with Bush & Co. – I have personally never heard a specific measure besides some nebulous talk of democracy and freedom.

    The victory will require complete and utter submission, an admission of defeat, followed by the remaining spiritual leaders of the community,not the pols, condemning the entire thought process which has drive the war (i.e, Shinto religion) to begin with. And in essence Red Pill, though it obviously a war that must be waged, there is no real way to determine how we know we’ve won without a some measure of assumption. And IMHO, the only ones that make that assessment are the people fighting the battle.

    However, our feckless politicians will, as always, be required to facilitate the measure, both the time and place, and the legality (which in this case will be worthless).

    In many ways, this war is a brand new paradigm (I hate that word).

  9. Red Pill-

    @Chen, As usual my first thoughts concerning poll numbers are who exactly was polled, how many were polled, and what exactly was the poll question?

    Also, “withdrawal” seems to indicate removal of military presence. Embacies don’t house armies, they house diplomats. In order to have that diplomacy that liberals have been screaming about for the last 5 years, we need diplomats in the area.

    It wasn’t a poll, it was this guy’s guess.

    And of course we want an embassy there for diplomats. I’m sure the Iraqis expect that we would. But like I said, the size and scope of the complex itself sybolizes more than that, and sends the signal that we’re there to have influence beyond what a traditional embassy entails.

    Or, are they just paranoid?

  10. It seems this guy was here to talk about the SOFA/SFA agreements currently being negotiated. Some people seem to think that these agreements will allow the US to remain in Iraq indefinitely, and they improperly believe that the embassy is one manifestation of this.

    I wouldn’t take that guys estimation literally, seeing as he clearly has a (Al Sadr) horse in this race, and they don’t seem to have the best understanding of what’s happening.

    I think this article covers the bases:

  11. General Chen,

    An interesting take…and one I think a great idea. If you’re right as you state, then why don’t we put it to a vote?

    Let the Iraqis Decide


    Yet all indications are that Iraqis can unite behind only one proposition: Yankee, go home! If that’s the case—or even if it’s not—how can we justify not letting them express their preference? How can we say that the people we have tried to bless with democracy should be denied a democratic means of resolving the issue?

    And why on earth should we mind? If the issue were put to a vote, one of two things could happen. The first is that Iraqis would make it clear they don’t want us around anymore and are ready to take over full responsibility for their own affairs. In that case, we can hit the exits with a clear conscience.

    The second is that they would have a sudden change of heart, realize they can’t manage without us and ask us to stay. That would not convince many Americans who think the potential gains to our security are not worth the cost. But it would surely strengthen the argument for staying.

  12. Let the Iraqi’s decide? Whoa! Now where have I heard that before?


  13. Before my time, but let me give you belated kudos. An excellent idea and one of the few you and I can actually agree with!

    One question…what are you going to do if they decide they like us and want us to stay? That is, think we’re beneficial?

    Admit you’ve been wrong?

  14. Well Tex, considering the idea hasn’t gained any traction beyond the pundit/blogosphere, I don’t really see it (the vote) happening, unfortunately. But yea, if it did and it went that way, I’ll be the first to admit it, sure.

  15. Chen,

    If there is one thing I would hope most of us agree on, it is that our politicians don’t have a clue, nor the sense of most barnyard animals; either party.

    And that is my biggest beef with your prophet Obama and George Bush for that matter. They want to give us more of it.

  16. But they are deciding whether the US will stay or not, through the negotiations concerning the SOFA/SFA. However, it’s not a nation-wide referendum like you guys seem to want. Instead, it’s being done by their elected officials.

  17. blogo,

    In this case, I do think Chen was on to something before the rest of us. For me personally, it’s a win, win situation. If they do want us, it puts to rest the argument. If they don’t, it gives us a perfect out.

  18. General Chen,


    P.S. – don’t believe everything you read in ‘The Nation’ or the NYT.

    But I still like your idea of a vote.

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