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Note To Obama: Dump The Community Blogs From Your Website

June 8, 2008

One would have thought that the disclaimer was enough:

Content on blogs in My.BarackObama represents the opinions of community members and in no way should be interpreted as endorsed or approved by the campaign.

But that isn’t going to stop the netizen hordes from digging through the community blogs with their screen capture software cocked and loaded, ready to pounce and smear.  

I watched this story develop in the blogosphere throughout the day, and now it has gone viral.   The lesson:  If you aren’t going to moderate this section of your website, you should probably just get rid of it altogether, since it can really do more harm than good as far as the campaign is concerned.   There’s just too much room for subversion with it; anyone can post anything within minutes (as I proved to the LGFers, who have been spending the better part of the day sifting through the archives for anything antisemitic), and its a jungle out there (here).   

I noticed that John McCain doesn’t have an open-forum community on his website, and it is probably for this reason.   I know that letting the online community have a voice and providing a venue for open exchange of ideas probably sounds noble and good on paper, but the reality is that sometimes the most radical voices yell the loudest.  If you leave it free for self moderation, before long your friendly community begins to look like a cesspool of hate, especially when you have those on the other side who are eager to latch on to the worst and spin it as indicative of the whole.

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63 comments

  1. ChenZhen, I don’t care if the ignorant want to pretend that any thing posted on a open forum is representative of the typical Obama supporter. Their days are numbered…


  2. MJ “revoltingpawn”, are you implying that the haters can come out of the woodwork once Obama wins the election? Although it would seem that a website with so many threads of hate might be a signal that something is amiss, no?

    Exactly what type of change are these types hoping for? Scary, indeed.


  3. Hey, it’s the Revolting puke. * What days numbered asshole? You think some election is going to change your pathetic story and life? You probably are that stupid.

    You better hope for your messiah’s sake, nobody of significance if forwarded to your ‘Revolting’ site, the worst type of advertising Bambi could receive.

    * There Chen, give me one of your ad hominem symbols.


  4. Now you want the emblems?


  5. Michael…

    What would make you say that I am “…implying that the haters can come out of the woodwork once Obama wins the election”?

    What I am saying is I don’t care if ignorant people think that the 0.02% of the Obama supports who would post comments like that believe they are typical or real Obama supports.

    “Although it would seem that a website with so many threads of hate might be a signal that something is amiss, no?”

    Ummm… How do we know the people who started those treads are really Obama supports? I guess you have never visited any right wing conservative message boards before but if had you would encounter many more hate mongers, racists, fascists, and crazy nut jobs then on the Obama forums.


  6. Ugly Revolting Puke,

    but if had you would encounter many more hate mongers, racists, fascists, and crazy nut jobs then on the Obama forums.

    You mean like hatemongering maggots that think it great sport to joke about heart attacks? Crazy nut jobs masquerading as wise pundits who can’t make it past the technical support job at the local library?

    Give me another General…give me two, if possible. You can brand me with the permanent flag if you’ll bring this scum to me.


  7. Tex-

    Give me another General…give me two, if possible. You can brand me with the permanent flag if you’ll bring this scum to me.

    Oh my! You already used the “puke” thing, so I’m not inclined to award another emblem here. And I’m not quite sure what I can do to bring him to you.

    Anyway, I love these righty blogs that are covering this. If Obama’s people leave the posts up, they condone the rhetoric. If they scrub them, then it’s a coverup. The only way to win, I suppose, is for them to ditch the community blogs altogether.


  8. ChenZhen…

    “Oh my! You already used the “puke” thing, so I’m not inclined to award another emblem here. And I’m not quite sure what I can do to bring him to you.”

    What are you talking about? emblems?


  9. MJ-

    What are you talking about? emblems?

    Since I have an aversion to deleting comments from my blog, awhile back I came up with the Chamber Emblems (they are listed in my sidebar as well). Tex hurled the ad hominem, so he got the white flag. Not really an “award” in this case, but oh well.


  10. ChenZhen…

    Oh, didn’t know you could change other people’s icons.

    While was not always the case, I don’t see name calling trolls who have nothing to add to the discussion anymore. On my blog when they show up I just give them one warning (or not) and then just delete and/or block them. I rather not have their ignorant remarks littering my blog.


  11. Oh Pawn,

    What a worm…

    I rather not have their ignorant remarks littering my blog

    The only comments you allow on that deviant circle jerk of a blog are nothing but litter parroting your stupidity. Anything that doesn’t follow your godless meme, you delete and run, brave soul that you are.

    What you obviously and desperately need is a girlfriend.


  12. I’ll get back to the point. Web forums that are sanctioned by a candidate in any way should be moderated somehow. Gov. Deval Patrick in MA experienced the same thing. His campaign site was an official one that had a section on 9/11. Well the troofers went a crazy and he deservedly was held accountable. The comments went unmoderated while comments in other sections were edited thus establishing the fact that the site was maintained to a degree and for reasons the campaign wanted.
    Now much like the speeches they’ve shared and the lack of experience the net aspect is another shared legacy. I better get up to Beacon Hill and check Deval and make sure he’s not really Obama. No Obama is much taller.


  13. I’ve long ago learned to squelch my sense of moral outrage at what gets written on the internet; even on “serious” websites. Internet forums just brings out the worst in people, for the most part. My friends and I call it the “internet tough guy” syndrome: people who are small enough to think they have to be big on the internet.

    I hate to talk about statistical inference again, but internet forums really aren’t a meaningful sample of anything. Too messy to be useful. Either they should be moderated, or people who think they let us know something interesting about the candidate need to realize this.


  14. The Huckabee campaign had a similar problem. Some people, mostly Romney-ites that I saw, went perusing the blogroll to find overtly-Christian blogs (Evangelical Ecologist, We Want A Christian President, etc.) and a few blogs, most notably ComMITTed to Romney, accused Huckabee of running for Pastor-in-Chief because of it.

    In this farce that we call American politics, apparently it’s too much to ask that people try to look at issues and substance, when there are “gotchas” to throw around.


  15. It’s never good policy to silence citizens…although that worked pretty well for Germany in the late 1930’s.


  16. blogoprofundo said,

    “I hate to talk about statistical inference again, but internet forums really aren’t a meaningful sample of anything. Too messy to be useful. Either they should be moderated, or people who think they let us know something interesting about the candidate need to realize this.”

    You are totally right in that internet forums and blogs are meaningless in the big picture. A good example of that would be Ron Paul supporters who swarmed the net but could not get him 10% of the vote.

    I do agree the Obama forums should be properly moderated but like I said who really cares if right wingers try use it to their advantage since 99% of people will never see their blog posts anyway.

    wickle said,

    “The Huckabee campaign had a similar problem. Some people, mostly Romney-ites that I saw, went perusing the blogroll to find overtly-Christian blogs (Evangelical Ecologist, We Want A Christian President, etc.) and a few blogs, most notably ComMITTed to Romney, accused Huckabee of running for Pastor-in-Chief because of it.”

    Good point but the difference is that it was not really of base to think Huckbee’s Christian beliefs would not shape his policies. The fact he did believe in evolution really scared me. On the other hand, does anyone really think Obama would not back Irsral in the Middle East?


  17. ChenZhen

    What kind of things are being posted in MyBarackObama ? I used to go there a lot when I was active volunteering in Iowa and Indiana.


  18. The thing that bugs me about his supporters is the same thing which bugs me about every hard-core supporter of any candidate: the inability to see the feet of clay.

    I will of course vote for whatever Dem is on the ticket, which will probably be Obama. But I still can’t wait for him to screw up royally, just to get his supporters to stop being so idealistic.

    His supporters are so stupid, they would applaud his farts.


  19. “Open, Transparent and Participatory” does not mean anarchy. It means welcoming everyone, having a clear set of rules and enforcement. Linux, Apache, MySQL and PHP could not exist without them.


  20. ChenZhen, I don’t care if the ignorant want to pretend that any thing posted on a open forum is representative of the typical Obama supporter. Their days are numbered…

    Ironic that history repeats itself in such a short spell. This is the type of empty-headed commentary I heard (their days are numbered) lame librarians making in 1976 after Watergate and Vietnam, bringing forth the Dhimmi Carter era. Most of you weren’t even around for that carnival – hope and change indeed.

    And after the enlightened voters waited for in line for their exorbitant fuel bill, watched Americans paraded around for 444 days in hoods, got a military so distraught they were sending people to the Army instead of jail, 21% home loan rates, American deaths due to poorly planned rescue attempts, and then were told their collective attitude was America’s biggest problem, they suddenly got religion about “change and hope” politicians.

    I’m rooting for a country where only the strongest survive and the weak are left to depend on their broken government. I may even go check out a book from the balding librarian for grins wearing an Bambi Osama 2008 t-shirt, say in about 2010. 🙂


  21. You know what Obama ‘hope and change’ promise I am most looking forward to implementation as indicated by the recent successes?

    Reconciliation of race relations!

    So far, the man has been about as successful as say the O.J. verdict. I’m currently buying stock in fire extinguishers, Ciprofloxacin, Smith & Wesson, and Euro stocks as a hedge.

    Dimocratic Campaign Slogan 2010
    Can’t we all just get along…

    Dimocratic Campaign Slogan 2012
    DEATH TO AMERICA!


  22. General,

    In my zeal to point fingers and laugh at the Revolting Pawn, I have failed to tell you that this is good advice.

    You’re getting warmer, you’re getting warmer…


  23. I rather not have their ignorant remarks littering my blog.

    Yet yours remain for all the world to see.

    Nice to see you’re still making friends, MJ.


  24. MJ –

    Not meaning to hijack the thread, but I’d love to know … what difference does Gov. Huckabee’s view of evolution make?

    I keep asking this question when people mention it, but I’ve never seen an answer.

    In over ten years as governor of Arkansas, Gov. Huckabee did nothing to threaten science education, right? In fact, he greatly improved the public schools in Arkansas.

    Apologies to Chen for the hijack … I accept any rebuke if you think one is in order.


  25. WK,

    Not meaning to hijack the thread, but I’d love to know … what difference does Gov. Huckabee’s view of evolution make?

    I keep asking this question when people mention it, but I’ve never seen an answer.

    You have to understand that Mr. Revolting’s vast array of scientific knowledge gained while being the assistant to the local librarian and his MySpace page has earned him a great deal of nothingness. If its godless, secular and pagan baby, it’s got to be good!


  26. Whew! I had a long day at work today and was away from the controls here. Let’s see if I can catch up…

    wickle-

    Apologies to Chen for the hijack … I accept any rebuke if you think one is in order.

    No probs. There is no “thread hijack” Chamber Emblem here. In fact, I expect that with a free flow of ideas there will be a slight detour from time to time. And since you bring it up, I’ve never considered evolution and the idea of a creator to be mutually exclusive principles, so I don’t hold it against Huck (or at least consider it a reason not to vote for the guy). What scares me is the notion that a leader would act under the belief that he/she was “anointed” by God to do things, or that “God spoke to him” and it influenced a decision to, say, invade another country or something. Evolution? No biggie. Although I think it would be fun to have a debate with him about dinosaurs or horses, zebras and donkeys, or something.

    Tex-

    General,

    In my zeal to point fingers and laugh at the Revolting Pawn, I have failed to tell you that this is good advice.

    You’re getting warmer, you’re getting warmer…

    Well, I figure that you call me General for a reason (DOH!), so…

    gasdocpol-

    Just follow the links, you’ll see what I’m referring to.

    And finally, since I mentioned (and linked to) LGF, I got their attention (courtesy of my old pal Killgore), and received a fair amount of hits here because of it. Funny that a few posts after that, old-time LGFer Mich-again says:

    re: #485 Killgore Trout

    Ha. Other than us, who will see that post?

    Ahhh…I’ll admit, sometimes I do miss that place, if for no other reason than the fact that it was a veritable shooting gallery for me over there. But just in case any of my lizard friends happen to be reading this, I’ll just say that LGF traffic made up less than 10% of the hits I’ve gotten so far for this thread. But I guess he has a point, Obama should really heed my advise IMO, if only they were to spot my post.


  27. Tex suggests MJ needs a “girlfriend,” yet half of the comments in this thread are his/hers.

    Forget a girlfriend, Tex needs a job.


  28. Forget a girlfriend, Tex needs a job.

    LOL. Pitiful, isn’t it? For 20 years, I paraded on to a reasonably high paying job, only to watch you slackers, screwups and under achievers take half of it while bad mouthing my type, your country and crying I wasn’t paying more. So I decided, why bother??? and joined your sorry crowd. Though completely unfulfilling and demeaning, no doubt it is the path of least resistance.

    But have no worry as I add you for future reference to the expanded deviant list. One can only make fun of some of America’s dregs for so long before complete boredom sets in. And that happened about a two months ago.

    I stroll thru these sites waiting for “my job” to start in about six weeks and hopefully for my sake, you’ll hear very little. But I will leave in one way wiser.

    While immersing myself in family and work all those years, I failed to notice that I was tacitly helping to hold folks like the Revolting Puke one rung above his own personal sewer which desperately needs to be flushed.

    When I leave, for the remainder of my years I will actively do everything in my power to further help ruin his obviously pitiful life. Consider it payback for the crap I’ve read since about 2002. After what I have witness on these boards while in preparation of “my job”, I have decided you and your ilk are as much my enemy as Osama.

    And it can’t come soon enough…if I had to do this for the rest of my life and associate with folks like you, I’d actively be seeking ways to ‘off’ myself.


  29. “Slacker, underachiever, screwup?”

    Come on man, you did make it past 8th grade, didn’t you? That crap is amateurish.

    You Wingnuts, and your one trick ponies.

    What’s next, a threat?

    Gosh.


  30. What’s next, a threat?

    Heavens no! That would assume you were important.

    And I can virtually guarantee you that I made in much further in the schooling than the “slacking blogger” I’m addressing…


  31. And General Chen,

    You have to at least give me credit for driving up traffic. You’re going to miss me when I’m gone!

    I lay one turd here and boom! Pagans, flunkies and other deviant leftwing cockroaches come out of the woodwork just like Al Qaeda – same way over at “The Watch.” I’ve noted similar symptoms vis-a-vis the BDS crowd and the SJS crowd.

    Makes me feel just like a kid kicking the monkey cage again. 🙂


  32. “After what I have witness on these boards while in preparation of “my job”, I have decided you and your ilk are as much my enemy as Osama.”

    The words of a true patriot.

    For some reason I got it in my head that you’re going to medical school, but I feel like you might also be joining the military. I can’t remember, and I might just be making it up. But either way, good luck. I feel kind of guy for being so entertained by an asshole.


  33. Edit: guy should read gay. Screwed that one up.


  34. I feel kind of guy for being so entertained by an asshole.

    I think that may have been a Freudian and not a mistake.

    Anyways, go with your head instead of your feelings Bluto. Otherwise, you too shall end up a lost cause like so many here as you often already appeared well on your way.

    Nonetheless, I am glad I could bring some gayness to your otherwise shitty existence as was my intent. Alas, all assholes too must pass…

    But the best part? There’s always that outside chance I could be your anesthesiologist. Hope that gives you the warm fuzzies as I consider my patriotic duty to combat the enemy.


  35. “But the best part? There’s always that outside chance I could be your anesthesiologist. Hope that gives you the warm fuzzies as I consider my patriotic duty to combat the enemy.”

    Holy crap, that’s funny. Well, just so long as I don’t have a case of the curvy-spine (that’s a technical term; you’ll learn it in medical school), I’ll be the guy defending your right to be a dickface. Hope that gives you the warm n’ fuzzies. A liberal that can tag an ass-clown at 500 meters. Better run!


  36. Well, we don’t call it curvy-spine but scoliosis. If I take my boards and mention “curvy-spine”, they’ll think me an ignorant lib and flunk me.

    Are you military? If so, I take back every rotten thing I said about you (almost) and I’ll even let you call me a dickhead. Who knew you were on my prayer list.


  37. “Are you military? If so, I take back every rotten thing I said about you (almost) and I’ll even let you call me a dickhead. Who knew you were on my prayer list.”

    Heck, don’t take those things back yet. I’m still a sack of shit wannabe (as they call me as I puke my guts out around mile 7.) I have one semester left, and then I’m off.


  38. Blogo SoSW,

    Heck, don’t take those things back yet. I’m still a sack of shit wannabe (as they call me as I puke my guts out around mile 7.)

    At 7 miles, they would be wheeling me on a gurney to dump me in a casket. 3 1/2 on the treadmill is about as far as I go anymore. If you’re a wannabee, I can well imagine what they would think of me.

    One semester, then I’m off. Off to where if I may ask?


  39. USMC Officer Candidate School at Quantico. That is, if I stay injury free and no weird medical conditions pop up. Only time will tell, I guess.


  40. Blogo,

    Tip of my hat to you and a new found respect for your accomplishments. Wish I had the insight as a young man.

    Godspeed, congratulations and “Ductus Exemplo”


  41. ChenZhen,

    {{What scares me is the notion that a leader would act under the belief that he/she was “anointed” by God to do things, or that “God spoke to him” and it influenced a decision to, say, invade another country or something.}}

    Yeah … Actually, I should have said more about that. At the time, I threw out a couple comments (I participated on the Fray at Slate back then), but not nearly as much as I should have. I rather doubt that W was really receiving prophetic commands.

    … and that is one of the failings of the Evangelicals, that we didn’t call him on that fraud.


  42. Blogo,

    Wish I had the insight as a young man. I understand the surrounding community very pretty.

    Godspeed, Congratulations and “Ductus Exemplo”


  43. Wickle,

    and that is one of the failings of the Evangelicals, that we didn’t call him on that fraud.

    What do you want us to call Bush on Wickle? That he has said his term was established by God? There may be statements I’m not aware of but I do know Bush said this. If that is your complaint, then you will forced to disagree with scripture…

    Romans 13:1
    Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

    For good and for evil…


  44. Tex –

    I quoted ChenZhen specifically to clarify the question of what it is on which we should have challenged him. Bush claims that Jesus told him to invade Iraq.

    Of course he was appointed (not necessarily anointed, by the way) to his office — as was Bill Clinton before him. That doesn’t, though, make him God’s anointed in the sense that David was.


  45. Tex- I’m not sure what it was about your last response to Blogo that my spam filter didn’t like, but I dug it out of my cache. Better late than never I guess.


  46. Pfffttt…I appreciate the compliment, but I haven’t accomplished anything yet. I’ll have done something if I make it through training and earn the respect of my men. Until then, I’m a sack of shit wannabe with a respectable PFT score.

    Doesn’t your little injunction from Romans cut both ways? One day, Obama will be President, and then you’ll have to remember “For the same reason you also pay taxes…Pay to all what is due them-taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due…” I also don’t think that many Christians believe in the impossibility of an unjust regime. MLK, for instance. Or Jesus, talking smack about overly strict sabbath observances or flipping over money changers tables in the temple. Even Paul was converted when he realized he didn’t have to follow the laws he was going to enforce.


  47. blogo,

    Doesn’t your little injunction from Romans cut both ways?

    Isn’t that what my answer to Wickle said? For good and for evil…

    I also don’t think that many Christians believe in the impossibility of an unjust regime.

    Really? I don’t know one Christian worth his or her salt that doesn’t believe in an unjust regime as the entire historical portion of Old Testament and the Roman Empire of the New Testament are sterling examples. In fact, I believe most regimes of history to be unjust, our beautiful country being one of a few exceptions. And yes, I do believe we have been blessed by God. I know it, in fact, as my eyes don’t lie.

    Wickle,

    Of course he was appointed (not necessarily anointed, by the way) to his office — as was Bill Clinton before him. That doesn’t, though, make him God’s anointed in the sense that David was.

    Did I say George Bush had been anointed? I said his regime had been established by God; not anointed by God.

    Like I have said previously Wickle. Though not worthy to be your judge, my discernment tells me your claim to Evangelism rather weak. I have read one criticism and acquiesce to libbies after another in Chen’s chamber about Bush and Co. – yet never see a tad of the Great Commission. Why?


  48. People seem quick to paint ones faith as equal to hearing voices and acting on them. A review of Dub’ya’s comments relating to faith,God and Iraq show a lot but not the boiled down “God told me-I am his messenger “!!!
    I would also like to say that as much as the media,blogs and assorted talking heads focus on anything but the strict issues it should be conceded that the general electorate kinda sucks at demanding better. It should further be conceded by anyone that is honest that the pols love the diversion since they don’t get nailed down on a position. I will stip though that some of the superficial nonsense is worthy of some digging.Doing so reveals such gems as Obama and &5.oo/gal gas being good and McCain potentially being focused on false long term ME projections as opposed to short term realities.


  49. “Really? I don’t know one Christian worth his or her salt that doesn’t believe in an unjust regime as the entire historical portion of Old Testament and the Roman Empire of the New Testament are sterling examples.”

    That’s what I said. The OT and NT are full of warnings against sitting on one’s theological haunches and thinking one has “got it right,” or that the status quo is the way it ought to be. Being a good Christian is, from my reading of the Bible, unbelievably difficult. Generally, God has punished the unreflective true believer.

    Personally, I don’t like Paul’s quietism. It seems at odds with a lot of the other teachings.


  50. Being a good Christian is, from my reading of the Bible, unbelievably difficult. Generally, God has punished the unreflective true believer.

    Being a good Christian is impossible…non are good, no not one.

    That’s because being a Christian isn’t about being “good.” And I always find it funny when I hear one of my own flock talk about a good Christian man when Christ Himself told us we weren’t because we can’t be good enough. But no, I don’t agree, that you can’t still know “you got it right.” We can discern good from evil…

    Paul called himself the worst of sinners…


  51. Tell you what Blogo, from the heart.

    The problem in America today isn’t George Bush as the left and apparently a majority of Americans believe. The problem isn’t a feckless Congress either. An election of McCain or even Obama will change nothing – neither particularly impressive in my book. Government is never an answer to any problem and never has been. Our problems are much, much deeper than that.

    One time, many years ago, I heard my mom call us (America) the revived Roman Empire somewhat in jest and I giggled at her. Now, when I look at the body of our citizens, I don’t laugh anymore. From our ungratefulness, to our corruption, to our gluttony and laziness, to our impetuousness, to even our worship of sports, I believe my mother almost prophetic.

    And this country is far more fragile than it wants to believe.


  52. “…Christ Himself told us we weren’t because we can’t be good enough. But no, I don’t agree, that you can’t still know ‘you got it right.’ We can discern good from evil…”

    We can definitely tell good from evil. However, we can’t know that we ‘got it right’ because we can’t get it right if we can’t be good. At least that’s the way it seems to me. The only thing we can do is take a deep breath, devote our lives to the betterment of others, and hope God takes it easy on us. Paul’s quietism is in part (I think) a plea to not touch anything while we’re here, since we’ll just screw it up. So we should live in quiet service to our neighbors (sinner, saint, or Philistine), and they likewise.

    There’s this strand in modern Christianity that equates personal success in this world with righteousness, and leads to the Roman Empire characterization, which I totally agree with. I think this denigrates the moral challenges inherent in living a moral life, and makes morality too individualistic. Being moral means interacting with others in a just way. It’s not primarily an individual trait, but a social trait. I, myself, cannot be moral. It’s my neighbors (and God) that give me an opportunity to be moral.

    (By the way, from your later posts it seems you’re older and perhaps a preacher. Sorry for the language. Figured you were a young ruffian like me.)


  53. (By the way, from your later posts it seems you’re older and perhaps a preacher. Sorry for the language. Figured you were a young ruffian like me.)

    LOL. You give me too much credit. I’m closer to a heretic than a preacher. Now the old part…well…

    You couldn’t say anything I haven’t heard and used on more than one occasion. My mouth would fit right with your drill instructors. How I married the classy babe I did is a miracle in itself. And you owe me an apology for nothing. I may owe you one about tacitly referring to the military hatred which you obviously do not. In fact, being an old man pushing 50 now, I really do consider your type, educated and in the military, the best America has to offer.

    To bore you completely, I came from corporate America, am ‘too’ formally educated as I consider that completely overrated, but once did give serious thought to entering the ministry some years back. It came down to two choices: (1) medicine or (2) theology.

    And since unlike so many Christians who claim to hear God’s voice which I never have, I simply went with my heart. My faith is very simple. I can look at creation and see my maker. We can argue about who God is as He is a mystery but anybody that denies there is one is a fool.

    My only calling was that I yearned for doing something for someone besides myself and my immediate family while being intellectually stimulated in doing so.

    It has been good talking to you Blogo. From the first, you seemed a bit brigher than the typical poster I meet and now I know why. I have enjoyed our conversations and good luck in your endeavors.


  54. make that brighter…


  55. Tex –

    {{Like I have said previously Wickle. Though not worthy to be your judge, my discernment tells me your claim to Evangelism rather weak. I have read one criticism and acquiesce to libbies after another in Chen’s chamber about Bush and Co. – yet never see a tad of the Great Commission. Why?}}

    Not sure where you’ve said that before, but I probably just missed it. Sorry if I didn’t respond before.

    Anyway … I’m always amused by the “I’m not qualified to judge you, but …” line. Did you notice that you said you’re not qualified to judge me, but you’re going to do so, anyway?

    My claim to Evangelism is weak? If you mean Evangelicalism, then I invite you to Durham Evangelical Church (Durham, NH) any time. I’m pretty much always there for the 9:45 service as part of the worship team; you’ll find me in the tech booth at the computer. I’m the nerdy-looking guy who may or may not have his glasses on. I also generally attend the 11:30 service with my family after that, but I won’t always be in the same place, so that might make it harder to find me.

    Anyway … In reference to my work on the Great Commission, I tend to witness much more in person than online, because I find that building relationships and trust makes that work better.

    However, I also find that by showing love it serves as a witness. I don’t give in to libbies, as you put it; I stand on what I believe. Sometimes, that includes the fact that liberals aren’t actually sub-human vermin. They’re people with different opinions. I find that people are more receptive to hearing the Gospel from someone who loves them, rather than from people who hate them and treat them with contempt.

    Criticizing Bush and Co. is a perfectly-appropriate Christian thing to do, just as it was appropriate to criticize Clinton and Co. and it will be appropriate to criticize whoever winds up as President in January.


  56. Wickle,

    Anyway … I’m always amused by the “I’m not qualified to judge you, but …” line. Did you notice that you said you’re not qualified to judge me, but you’re going to do so, anyway?

    LOL! I didn’t recognize part of the Great Commission was the commandment “You shall not observe!” I’m always amused by christians (small c purposely placed) that use the old, tired cliche we are not to judge. If we can’t discern, how shall we know the truth?

    By the way, sitting in the church pew won’t save you. But I’m sure somewhere in Durham, NC, there’s an Evangelical preacher that has said as much. Interestingly, it was your type that ran me from the church. I got tired of the stale messages, the false piety, and the lack of courage.

    Try to remember even Paul shook the dust from his feet, John the Baptist, who Christ himself called the greatest man who lived, vocally and openly criticized Herod, and Elijah, perhaps the greatest prophet ever, openly mocked the heathens. Eleven of the 12 Disciples were crucified, stoned, burned at the stake, beheaded, and crucified and I highly doubt that happened because they were busy making friends. So if I am wrong in my approach, I am in good company.

    The other night, you criticized me for mocking a scumbag who pasted “McCain has heart attack” and accused me of probably being worse for using the term “Bambi Osama.” It was then I recognized your judgement not entirely sound.

    P.S. – part of “love” requires standing for the truth and speaking the truth. And when Elijah said, “If God be God, follow God; if Baal be God, follow Baal would be probably be good advice.


  57. Tex, do you read your own comments?

    You’re the one who mentioned not being qualified to judge me.

    Durham, NH, by the way, not NC.

    As to your point about the disciples being killed, they were killed for telling an unwanted Truth in love … not for calling people scumbags and using middle-school techniques of name-calling.

    Perhaps you mistake for persecution the fact that people criticize you for having an abrasive personality. John the Baptist was hated for calling religious leaders on their fraud. And, yes, he used undiplomatic language to do so.

    He didn’t just sit around insulting people, which is pretty much what you’re doing.


  58. Wickle,

    I know you find yourself terribly witty and bright. I don’t. I just wasted 10 minutes or so of my life explaining to the superior intellect, nerdy kid that “not being fit to judge” doesn’t mean I can’t discern right from wrong; or did you want me to equate myself to Jesus? What are you? About 16 years old?

    The disciples were killed because of a defense of the faith Wickle; a strong defense of the faith. They didn’t behead people for bubbly conversation while speaking in love. These men were bold like you couldn’t believe and if you think I’m wrong, perhaps you would be best to reread Christ’s entrance into Jerusalem and the waving of palms which I hope you understand the significance…

    Now, I’ll admit they didn’t use the put downs, cut downs, slaps across the head, virtual kicks to the balls that I do, but across a cable line, they didn’t have the disadvantage of being a million miles away either. And I am certainly not in their league either being a rank amateur.

    You will have to forgive me if I don’t use this board as my own personal mission. It’s an out…nothing more.

    From the previous post, I said exactly what I meant – Evangelism; not as you suggest Evangelicalism.

    Sorry to get your state wrong. NH is a pretty country and I’ve got a friend that lives in Manchester. Wouldn’t want to live there but it is pretty.

    And if you think I go around in the real world calling people “pukes”, “deviants”, “scumbags” – in my abrasive style, well, 🙂 you’d be wrong. I think you take this “blogging” a little too seriously as some reflection upon your own life. That would put you in bad company with the revolting “puke” and other misfits having no life.

    That’s one reason I always liked the General Chenster – I can tell he looks at this about like I do; a pastime, sometimes an exchange of info or ideas, and doesn’t take it too awful seriously. He mixes the important with the pastime – just the way it should be.

    You’re not going to believe this next statement and this will blow your mind, but it is true:

    Last year, I was nominated and received the “good” neighbor of year award from my residential home owners association. It’s given to those and my little plaque reads “Go above and beyond…” I’ve been a Big Brother, a hospital volunteer and numerous other good deed things. So while I may come across as incredibly abrasive with the lowlifes and pious like you which is my intent (so I don’t blow my top and kill the stupid in the real world who help to screw our country), outside the computer screen I’m actually not a bad guy.

    Been married to the same beautiful Christian lady for 21 years but are currently separated by 500 miles because of work engagements and me going to school. We did for our children as to not disrupt the only life they’ve ever known. My two daughters are absolutely first rate, excellent students and pretty to look at. This last two years have been a personal downer because of boredom, difficulties, death, etc…but it won’t be that way much longer.

    And now that I have sufficiently bored you with my boring stories of, if I heard you preaching your watered down message of “can’t we all just get along” while only criticizing your brothers in Christ out in public, I probably would remain silent. I my wish for you would be that you a little more effective in your personal witness.


  59. Tex,

    The only people that Jesus and John the Baptist attacked in anything like your style were the religious leadership, who should have known better. To those who had no way to know better, Jesus was quite loving in His approach.

    Congratulations on the award. As a matter of fact, I do believe you. There are people who take on different roles in real life and online. So be it.

    As for me, I’m a real person and the online Wickle is the same person who exists in real life … although most people don’t call me Wickle.

    As for personal witness … how many people do you suppose you might turn off with your online jackass personna, while professing to be a Christian? Even if you don’t, other people take what they see online seriously.

    I prefer the approach of love, gentleness, self-control … you might recognize those as fruit of the Spirit.

    No problem about getting the state wrong … I had to check to see whether I’d hit it wrong. I started college in Rocky Mount, NC and used to have a brother in Raleigh. Come to think of it, I was born in Goldsboro (at Seymour Johnson AFB), and my grandmother still lives in Charlotte. I do love NC, though I don’t get there as often as I’d like.

    Take care.


  60. Wickle,

    I prefer the approach of love, gentleness, self-control … you might recognize those as fruit of the Spirit.

    Congratulations…surely your crown will have many stars. Mine might be a tin hoop but I’ll still have one. Paul did say there are many parts to the body. By the way, Christ attacked the hypocrites because of their legalisms without walking the walk. Why don’t you show me your works? You absolutely sure your persona doesn’t reflect a little hypocrisy sport?

    As for personal witness … how many people do you suppose you might turn off with your online jackass personna, while professing to be a Christian? Even if you don’t, other people take what they see online seriously.

    I suppose there’s a measure of truth to your statement which believe it or not, I’ve considered. Iron sharpens iron. Of course, you straddling the fence on virtually any issue of substance (online), either apparently too cowardly or too blind to confront evil (ala The Revolting example), isn’t much of a witness either. So perhaps we have the blind leading the blind.

    Let’s just say if I were milquetoast when it came to scripture, your liberal theological teaching would leave me empty and remind me of the verse:

    Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter…

    It might help to remember Wickle, Christ came not to unite but to divide.

    Cast that vote for Obama!


  61. P.S. Wickle,

    One last thing. Christ did attack the disciples for their hypocrisy…and harshly.

    Consider that in your judgement.


  62. Ummm … Tex?

    I’m not voting for Obama. I just called out Frank Schaeffer for endorsing Obama. There’s not a force on earth that could motivate me to vote for Obama. I, in fact, support Joe Schriner for President … and do so because he’s a man of faith who isn’t afraid to stand on it and apply it without compromise to his policies.

    And, yes, you’re right that Jesus called out the disciples — since they were on their way to being religious leaders, I don’t think that that serves as a good counter-example, but you’re right that it was worthy of mention. Touche, if you’ll pardon my French.

    It might be worth mentioning that my first remark to MJ in this thread (way back when I was thinking about being considerate about the original post … sorry, Chen!) was asking him why Mike Huckabee’s belief in Creationism threatened him.

    Unless I’ve missed it, he didn’t answer.

    Is there hypocrisy in my life? I’m sure that there is … given that I’m a fallen human. I’m not going to fall into the trap (whether you meant it as such or not … and I’m not accusing you of doing so) of denying that I’m a sinner wholly dependent on grace for salvation.

    As for my works …well, … as I mentioned, I’m on my church’s worship team. I help lead and direct that team, which has recently included some meetings with the Elders about the nature of worship and our relationship with the Holy Spirit.

    I’m a father of four, and we’re making sure that the three who lived to be born know the Truth and see it in our lives. In a practical, day-to-day way, I’m the one at work who doesn’t gawk at the cleaning lady, I’m the one who doesn’t laugh at the dirty jokes; and people know where I stand.

    As an invitation … since I’m guessing that not every visitor to the Chamber wants to read our conversation, why not throw a comment onto my blog somewhere, and we can either continue this discussion there or via e-mail if you’d rather.

    Just a thought.


  63. Wickle,

    And, yes, you’re right that Jesus called out the disciples — since they were on their way to being religious leaders, I don’t think that that serves as a good counter-example, but you’re right that it was worthy of mention. Touche, if you’ll pardon my French.

    Actually, I think my analogy was spot on as I’ve tacitly attested to with the examples above. But why argue? I have no doubt you are a Christian and a fine man.

    As an invitation … since I’m guessing that not every visitor to the Chamber wants to read our conversation, why not throw a comment onto my blog somewhere, and we can either continue this discussion there or via e-mail if you’d rather.

    I’m sure you’ll raise good kids. And I am glad that there are still people like you. I think you would find that I am not that different besides I have no use for formal church service anymore. Not after what I witnessed.

    I admit I will give some thought to providing a better example and you are right. I don’t have to be so crass. Like I said, there is no one way to witness but there is only one truth. Being that I’ll soon be gone, it probably won’t be noticed. Touche’…

    About works thru the church, I am reminded of what Luis Palau said, “The church is like manure. Pile it together and it stinks up the neighborhood; spread it out and it produces fertile crop.” Or something like that.

    I had to paraphrase because I couldn’t remember the exact quote.

    You take care and I’ll leave you alone. I just didn’t take kindly to your defense of the indefensible with reference to the Puke at his site. Personally, I feel that creep needs to be caned and I would be more than happy to carry it out.

    P.S. – I am sorry for your loss. Though I can’t imagine the sorrow as I’ve never experienced anything of that magnitude, if you ever needed comfort and no one has ever mentioned it, there is a very small blurb in Job. When God provided Job with double of everything after his loss which God allowed, there was only one thing God didn’t double (his family). That small fact is often overlooked but incredibly important. And I am sure you recognize why…

    Take care.



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