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Official Chamber Post-Debate Thread

September 26, 2008

As everyone knows, round 1 of the McCain vs. Obama debates aired tonight, and my roommate and I decided to watch it on CNN (’cause they had the cool graphs ‘n’ stuff in HD).  Overall, I think that both candidates performed very well.  Certainly there will be pundits everywhere pouring over everything and offering analysis, but I think it’s safe to say that the faults will be found with microscopes.  In other words, there really was no knockout blow given by either of them. 

So, for my part, I’ll just highlight what I thought was the most memorable part, and it came when Obama was given the opportunity to rebut the oft-delivered criticism that he advocated “attacking” Pakistan:

OBAMA: Nobody talked about attacking Pakistan. Here’s what I said.

And if John wants to disagree with this, he can let me know, that, if the United States has al Qaeda, bin Laden, top-level lieutenants in our sights, and Pakistan is unable or unwilling to act, then we should take them out.

Now, I think that’s the right strategy; I think that’s the right policy.

And, John, I — you’re absolutely right that presidents have to be prudent in what they say. But, you know, coming from you, who, you know, in the past has threatened extinction for North Korea and, you know, sung songs about bombing Iran, I don’t know, you know, how credible that is. I think this is the right strategy.

I gotta tell ya, we let out quite a howl for the “sung songs about bombing Iran” part.  Awesome.  I mean, I’ve defended what Obama said about Pakistan many times here in the Chamber, but I think he did a better job thinking on his feet than I did sitting down in front of my laptop carefully choosing my words.  It was a beautiful rebuttal, and I don’t think McCain will be bringing up that criticism again.

I’ll leave the thread open for more discussion on the debate.  Here’s the full transcript.

Update:  This is already up on memeorandumPoll Results Suggest More Uncommitted Voters Saw Obama As Debate Winner

UPDATED WITH FINAL NUMBERS CBS News and Knowledge Networks conducted a nationally representative poll of approximately 500 uncommitted voters reacting to the debate in the minutes after it happened.

Thirty-nine percent of uncommitted voters who watched the debate tonight thought Barack Obama was the winner. Twenty-four percent thought John McCain won. Thirty-seven percent saw it as a draw.

Forty-six percent of uncommitted voters said their opinion of Obama got better tonight. Thirty-two percent said their opinion of McCain got better.

I think McCain needed to do a lot better than 24% with uncommitted voters tonight.

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64 comments

  1. salmon are running…won’t be back until sunday night…for the next 48 hours…i don’t give a damn


  2. I didn’t watch it, but I’ve looked over the transcript, and I think you’re right, there was no knockout punch. I think that that’s borne out by your poll results showing that “Draw” was a close second. However, McCain did want to do better than a solid third.

    It is a legitimate comment, though, that CNN has shown some weakness in finding undecided voters (referring, of course, to the YouTube debacle … errr … debate). Expect the spin to be that the crowd wasn’t really undecided.

    This should have been McCain’s strongest debate, of course, the one to focus on foreign policy.


  3. I felt Obama had weaknesses and strengths in the debate but McCain’s body language done him in. He would not even look at Obama and he came off as a bitter old man.

    McCain since he has been slipping in the polls needed to win this debate on his home turf and on his area of supposed strength and the best he did was tie. Not good enough…

    I really can’t wait to see if Sarah Palin will show up to her debate with Joe Biden. She has not looked good in her two softball interviews so a debate could be a disaster for her and McCain. Joe just needs to be careful not to beat her up to much or else she could turn into some type of victim and win sympathy votes.

    @wickle

    The poll ChenZhen cited about the undecided votes was by CBS not CNN…

    Ideas and Revolution – If you’re not outraged you’re not reading this blog


  4. I think McCain made a major error by throwing out the idea of a spending freeze for the federal government. He had made some headway, I thought, by repeatedly criticizing federal spending and saying that it needed to be cut. Many, probably most, voters agree with that general, abstract proposition. But what he has been careful never to say before is: what programs, benefits or agencies would you actually cut? Because once he identifies a specific cut, he has to actually defend the merits of eliminating that program against those who get the benefit of it, and that’s a losing game for a presidential candidate (who needs every vote he can garner).
    Now that he has said that he wants to “consider” a spending freeze, he should be asked the natural follow-up questions: which federal programs would be frozen and which would not? And then he’s into naming specific cuts. (A spending freeze operates as an effective budget cut in the amount of the rate of inflation — the same dollars as the previous year buy fewer goods and services as inflation erodes buying power). McCain said he would exempt defense spending (as I recall). How about basic entitlements such as social security? Medicaid spending? Student loans? Farm subsidies? Veterans’ benefits? Roads and bridges? Port security? Federal law enforcement? Border patrol? The list goes on and on.
    This debate was on foreign policy. There are two more debates that will focus more intently on domestic policy. Look for Obama to press McCain for specifics and details on his concept of a federal spending freeze — and for McCain to try desperately to wriggle out of having to answer.


  5. Actually, only 2/3 was really on foreign policy. If that.

    I think the 1st 1/3 was a draw. All economic hypotheticals and ideologies. I gave the 2nd 1/3 to Obama. He was really strong in the middle, I felt. Very confident in his answers. And I gave the last 1/3 to McCain, hands down. He gave specifics on foreign policy while Obama gave generalizations and defended his prior actions against McCain’s attacks. Defense is never a good position to be held at in a debate.

    McCain tossing out the idea of a spending freeze might not have been the best answer. But it beat the answer Obama gave, which as I recall was none. He wouldn’t answer the question, even after it was asked 3 times. He tried to use saving money in Iraq, but in turn ignored the rest of the War on Terror. All he kept talking about were the things that needed funding. He refused to say what spending he might cut. He seems unwilling to accept or admit that he cannot possibly hope to fund all of his proposed spending projects, and he is counting on the fact that his supporters will do the same.

    As someone who has done detailed comparisons of both candidate’s energy plans, I got the biggest kick out of that portion. When Obama tried to claim he was in favor of nuclear energy and off-shore drilling. Anyone who has done their research knows both claims are laughable. Obama is only in favor of nuclear energy after more R&D is done. And his off-shore drilling plan puts it so far off shore it is rediculous. McCain called him on both. Too bad it didn’t score more points with Average John Doe.

    The Kissenger exchange was nice, too. Obama got caught up in his own attack. After that, his tone changed for the rest of the debate. He seemed more easily aggitated, and you could see McCain was getting to him a bit. Especially when he would keep talking when Obama wanted to interject.

    Ultimately, I didn’t see or hear any game-changers that will make a difference past next week.


  6. Revolting Moron,

    I really can’t wait to see if Sarah Palin will show up to her debate with Joe Biden. She has not looked good in her two softball interviews so a debate could be a disaster for her and McCain. Joe just needs to be careful not to beat her up to much or else she could turn into some type of victim and win sympathy votes.

    Is this the same Joe Biden that told us Bush needed to do what FDR did during the Depression and go on TV to calm the markets?

    Even though Herbert Hoover was President during the Great Depression and TV was still 20 years off?

    I can see why you’re a big fan.


  7. I don’t know. In my opinion Sarah Palin looks pretty damn good any time. Even the president of Pakistan agress.

    But seriously, why should Palin be intimidated by the Biden gaffe-factory? He can’t even stay on the message of his own ticket. Clean coal, anyone?

    Everyone stand, even you folks in wheelchairs. Maybe he thinks Obama can heal them like he will heal the planet?

    Yeah, Biden is a real slugger.


  8. “But seriously, why should Palin be intimidated by the Biden gaffe-factory? He can’t even stay on the message of his own ticket. Clean coal, anyone?”

    Can’t stay on party message? I thought that made you a maverick! (That was a joke.)

    Anyway, I think it’s obvious that the VP debate will not be between a couple of heavyweights. Palin is painfully unable to form a coherent thought on the fly (if the Couric/Hannity interviews are any evidence) and Biden is a blowhard.

    People should defenitely start calling Obama out on how the bailout will affect his fiscal policy. It was pretty funny when he brought up alternative energy when asked about cuts in his spending plan. You could tell he knew he made a mistake on that one.


  9. I think someone over at Moderate Voice mentioned that, at this point, the expectations for Palin are now so low that her just showing up and not coming across as a complete buffoon will seem like a win for the ticket. That might be asking too much, however.

    I give it about a 30% chance that the McCain camp pulls some stunt to get her out of it.


  10. Chen,

    I can’t tell you how touched I was by Obama wearing the fallen soldier’s bracelet. I would have been more touched if the brilliant prophet could have remembered the young man’s name without having to look at the bracelet.

    Did you happen to notice that highlight.

    What a fake…


  11. Well I watched the whole debate, and it didn’t come across that way to me. Sure, he looked at the bracelet. Does that mean that he forgot his name? Not necessarily. Maybe it was somewhere in between. Like a “trust but verify” moment. I dunno. He’s been wearing it since February, so my guess is that he knows who’s name is on it.

    It was pretty telling, however, that the only criticism coming at Obama from places like Malkin and Fox & Friends was that bracelet scene. That’s all they got? He looked at his bracelet?


  12. Actually, many folks thought he was lame all the way around. Since I think you completely biased, I didn’t expect objectivity.

    But that was a nice attempt at a excuse for the prophet…


  13. Actually, many folks thought he was lame all the way around. Since I think you completely biased, I didn’t expect objectivity.

    “Many folks” that are, unlike myself apparently, convincingly objective?

    Oh, and:
    USA TODAY/Gallup Poll: Obama did better job in first debate


  14. He kept calling John McCain ‘Jim’ or ‘Tim.’ Absent-minded professor.


  15. Oh, I don’t doubt Chen many Americans as slow as you. Remember, Dancing with the Stars isn’t a big hit for nothing…

    And now, for compare and contrast, the Obama record of accomplishment:


  16. …and we change the subject.


  17. Chen,

    Well, since you’re becoming nervous about the election and more smarmy by the week, I reverted back to my old self just for posterity’s sake.

    Are you so small minded (it’s a rhetorical question) that you can’t put 2 and 2 together? I say your man doesn’t have a clue, an idea, or a plan – domestically or foreign. I didn’t hear one specific in the debate except some nebulous baloney of tax cuts for 95% of the American public – which by the way even if true, and McCain is not smart enough to point out, they’re not even permanent.

    Good grief…I used to think you just confused. Now I am beginning to think you filled to capacity.


  18. Chen-
    My deepest condolences to you. Frankly, it’s not even worth it anymore. How do you put up with it?


  19. Not sure what you mean?


  20. Here Chen,

    See Chen, Mike tries to appear wise as he continually comes across as the patronizing intellect. Personally, I find him a bore and one of the thickest skulls on the net, so I generally ignore him unless the question is directed to me.

    Mike’s insinuation to you is that you being the blog owner should either ban me or ignore me. Though Mike can’t hold himself to the same set of rules because he’s the ultimate contrarian – to anyone and anybody, on any subject. I suppose that makes him look bright. It doesn’t.

    Mike reminds me of King; just a little more wordy. I can see where he was an upstanding member at Fearbush…


  21. I’m not gonna ban you Tex. Not unless you really go off the deep end, anyway. Using the Emblems is a lot more fun than banning (and probably more effective).

    I wish you’d decide on a nic, though. 🙂


  22. Nah, there’s no point in banning. I was just thinking on a personal level. Most people I know WANT to participate in reality. I have no idea how to communicate with someone who isn’t even willing to admit that facts exist. It just sort of ruins the fun of arguing when someone is confronted by a counterargument they can’t address, and so starts psychologizing. He just can’t talk to the guy.


  23. Closet Contrarian,

    It just sort of ruins the fun of arguing when someone is confronted by a counterargument they can’t address, and so starts psychologizing. He just can’t talk to the guy.

    There’s little you can talk about that I can’t address. You go off on some stupid tangent and it’s far more fun just to mock. As far as psychologizing, I assume you’re referring to the “thick” skull? That was nice compared to the “physiology” I was close to mentioning.


  24. Admit that facts exist? LOL. I just noticed that ask I skimmed your post.

    I know for a fact you’re obtuse. Is that factual enough Mike?


  25. Oh, I don’t doubt Chen many Americans as slow as you. Remember, Dancing with the Stars isn’t a big hit for nothing…

    This is just TOO precious! Goodbye (or is it Natalie?) you have the nerve to cite Dancing with the Stars in an attempt to insult Chen when it is the Dancing with the Stars crowd that is going ga ga over Sarah Palin? Sorry but if you’ve been paying any attention at all, you’d know that Obama is having trouble connecting with “Joe Sixpack” while Sarah, just today in a radio interview, identified herself as just that. Palin has singlehandedly turned this election into American Idol. I’m just hoping Thursday night she gets voted off the “show”. (Wouldn’t it be great to have Simon Cowell next to Gwen Ifill, providing a critique of answers?)


  26. Right Rutherford,

    By the way, what’s the “L” stand for on your logo? Lowlife, leech, or loser?

    Is there a problem being Joe Sixpack “L”? Trust me Rutherford – you may think your thinking elite. It isn’t. But perhaps you’re right. Perhaps I should have mentioned “Oprah” instead.

    If Sarah Palin has turned this into Dancing with the Stars, Joe Biden has turned the election into the Gong Show, by the way. Has there ever been a dumber V.P. candidate running than this guy? Every day, he tops his previous gaffe.

    What’s funny is the bobble-headed lemmings like you preaching to us about the sophistication of you and your new messiah. Where you one of the precious fans serenading the Prophet today?

    No wonder you’re a fan.


  27. Tex-

    Is there a problem being Joe Sixpack “L”? Trust me Rutherford – you may think your thinking elite. It isn’t. But perhaps you’re right. Perhaps I should have mentioned “Oprah” instead.

    The problem, as I see it, is with the demonization coming from your side of the “elite”. As if being intelligent and educated is somehow a BAD thing. If I wanted someone who was “like me” and a potential beer-drinking partner, I’d nominate my pal Jordan. But when it comes to the ability to address the myriad of complex, difficult, domestic and international problems that our country faces, heaven forbid that I’d want someone who I’d consider to be smarter than me. Bush should serve as a prime example of what should be a lesson learned in that regard.

    BTW- Of course that’s an “R”, silly.


  28. “This is just TOO precious! Goodbye (or is it Natalie?) you have the nerve to cite Dancing with the Stars in an attempt to insult Chen when it is the Dancing with the Stars crowd that is going ga ga over Sarah Palin? Sorry but if you’ve been paying any attention at all, you’d know that Obama is having trouble connecting with “Joe Sixpack” while Sarah, just today in a radio interview, identified herself as just that. Palin has singlehandedly turned this election into American Idol. I’m just hoping Thursday night she gets voted off the “show”. (Wouldn’t it be great to have Simon Cowell next to Gwen Ifill, providing a critique of answers?)”

    But don’t call them elitists.

    You see, all of us Republicans are nothing but simple beer drinking morons who sit around watching dumb-ass TV shows all day. We aren’t refined enough or educated enough to know what is good for us. And what is good us is obviously Barack Obama. If we all weren’t so stupid, we’d surely realize that.

    Oh please! Help us Obiwan Obama, you’re our only HOPE!

    This is hilarious. It’s not the inexperienced junior senator who hasn’t really done anything noteworthy in his political career except give a speech and write his memoirs that has turned this election into American Idol. It’s Sarah Palin.

    It’s not the inexperienced junior senator who has already created his own presidential logo that has turned this election into American Idol. It’s Sarah Palin.

    It’s not the inexperienced junior senator who has given a speech in a mock Oval Office that has turned this election into American Idol. It’s Sarah Palin.

    It’s not the inexperienced junior senator who has children singing his praises as though he is our Great Leader that has turned this election into American Idol. It’s Sarah Palin.

    It’s not the inexperienced junior senator that already has presidential coins being struck with his likeness that has turned this election into American Idol. It’s Sarah Palin.

    And for the record, while I do love beer, I have never seen a minute of Dancing With The Stars or American Idol. So not only does your sweeping generalities about Palin supporters show you to be the elitist you are, Rutherford, it also shows that you don’t have a clue WTF you are talking about.


  29. Chen, the problem is that people like Rutherford ignore the fact that Joe Sixpack might also be intelligent and educated.


  30. And I think Rutherford deserves an Ad Hominem award for the effort.


  31. If anyone deserves the white flag, it’s Tex.


  32. General asshole, here’s a white flagger for you.

    BTW- Of course that’s an “R”, silly.

    I believe that is Rutherford Lawson. The more I thought about it, the more the “L” I realized stood for “L”imp – as in flaccid dick.

    Stupid mofos like Rutherford “L” need to make up your mind. First, big bad Republicans are the party of the rich. Did we get that way from being uneducated? Then, we turn around to find out “intellectuals” like Rutherford are referring to the Joe Sixpack crowd. A read from Rutherford sounds like something from NORML – rambling and incoherent.

    Well what are General? The elite and rich and educated? Or the party of the little guy?

    You idiots can’t even be consistent in your mocking.


  33. And General Asshole, give me a twofer from your emblems of which your proud.

    As if being intelligent and educated is somehow a BAD thing.

    Is that the quota Harvard educated that won’t release his grades, that doesn’t know what states adjoin to his own or how many there are? Or your VP candidate that didn’t know what year the Depression took place? Yeah, looks like you’ve picked a couple of real heavyweights.

    If intelligence is the measure of all good, then you guys ought to be blowing Dick Cheney.


  34. Hey Wickle,

    Wasn’t it you that was preaching to me the other day about the “fairness” of NPR and PBS? How we that thought them liberal and bias was only because of our own ignorance?

    Uh huh…

    http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/10/01/oh-oh-6/

    Well, hopefully this is the end of the argument…


  35. The intelligentsia deserves to be misstrusted. After going out to eat in Ann Arbor, Mrs. Rabbit and I stopped in a University of Michigan book store. As I was perusing the Social Studies section, I noticed every book was poop. Wordy, post-modernist jargon. Who the hell is Michael Foulcat? I defy anyone to make sense of that crap. It is everywhere. To my horror, I realized half the liberal arts section was made up of this nonsense. Either that or complete revisionist fiction. The funny thing is I’m sure Chen and Mike will wax on how important these books are, or at least explain them to me. Yeah right. So, I guess my point is that us 6-packers have every right to be suspicious of anyone who claims to be “educated”. You guys are being had by wordy ass snake oil salesmen and we aint buying it. How’s that for your “dialectic”?

    Suck my “construct”.


  36. Tex-

    Wasn’t it you that was preaching to me the other day about the “fairness” of NPR and PBS? How we that thought them liberal and bias was only because of our own ignorance?

    Uh huh…

    Well, there ya go. Perfect excuse to get Palin out of debating Biden.


  37. Ha Chen,

    As you type, Biden is caught lying again about his helicopter being shot at in Afghanistan. Seems the Marines have had enough of your pol lying. I’ll make you a bet right now with you and your limp lib friends.

    I’ll bet Thursday night (which I wasn’t even going to bother to watch but now will) your lifetime Congressman, flunkin’ Joe Biden, comes off looking like a douche bag. And my supposed feeble gal comes off a hell of a lot brighter than you sexist maggots are pretending. Want to place a bet here on the board?

    By the way. That dumbass beauty queen hick from Alaska? She’s got an 80% approval rating from her constituents. Can you find me one of your “highly” educated and wise libs that can make such a claim?

    No, I didn’t think so.

    But kind of like NARAL during the Bill Clinton blowjob scandal, true hypocrisy is again being exposed. The so-called women’s party doesn’t appear so friendly to its own gender, does it?


  38. Rabbit,

    I can attest from personal experience as someone who has more education than he should, and met more than his share of “brilliance” during his college curriculum.

    You can grab the dumbest, most uneducated guy you can find on the dock, take him to any University of higher education, I will meet your there, and identify at least 10 academicians with PHD (Piled Higher and Deeper) who can’t hold a candle to your dock worker concerning decision making, wisdom or execution. These “elite” are a walking nightmare.

    And the best part of this whole argument from our lefty members of the room on this thread? I’d like them to verify to us about how they obtained their expert opinion about Joe Sixpack and his so-called lack of intellect.

    Because the people preaching to us about the brilliance of “the educated and elite” don’t even have enough of the personal education to form an “educated” opinion.

    They’re simply parroting the lib meme. The usual words without knowledge stuff I’ve come to expect from the left…


  39. I so far haven’t been happy with Palin. Maybe Chen’s sexism is rubbing off on me I don’t know. I find myself cringing every time she speaks. I honestly have not heard her say anything with much meaning at best, possible sheer ignorance at worse. I do, however, go into the debate with an open mind.

    I was a little knee jerk with dropping my vote for McCain. I guess I should be allowed that misgiving given the fact we are becoming socialist. I’ll probably end up voting for him if the stock market stabilizes. I doubt it will. This bailout is going to create nothing but confusion in the short run. God help us in the long run.

    NO TO THE BAIL OUT!


  40. Hell, if we’re going to be socialist, at least Dead Rabbit should get a refi. Remember that falling satellite the Navy blew out of the sky? Dead Rabbit was tracking that son of a bitch hoping it would turn his house into a crater.


  41. Definitely a double standard when it comes to Biden. Dude can utter absolute absurdities and he gets away with because….he always utters absolute absurdities. Partisan Chen never busts Biden’s balls. How come?


  42. From the incomparable one concerning the brilliance of Senator Jolting Joe Biden, the fairness of the MSM, and one Rutherford the “L” can stuff in his mattress:

    Shockingly, Sen. Joe Biden was one of only five senators to vote against the first Alaskan pipeline bill in 1973. This is like having been a Nazi sympathizer during World War II. If Sarah Palin does nothing else, she has got to tie that idiotic pipeline vote around Biden’s neck.

    The Senate passed the 1973 Alaskan pipeline bill by an overwhelming 80-5 vote. Only five senators voted against the pipeline on final passage. Sen. Biden is the only one who is still in the Senate — the other four having been confined to mental institutions long ago.

    The stakes were clear: This was in the midst of the first Arab oil embargo. Liberal Democrats, such as senators Robert Byrd, Mike Mansfield, Frank Church and Hubert Humphrey, all voted for the pipeline.

    But Biden cast one of only five votes against the pipeline that has produced more than 15 billion barrels of oil, supplied nearly 20 percent of this nation’s oil, created tens of thousands of jobs, added hundreds of billions of dollars to the U.S. economy and reduced money transfers to the nation’s enemies by about the same amount.

    We couldn’t possibly expect Couric to ask Biden about a vote that is the equivalent of voting against the invention of the wheel…

    HA HA HA!


  43. Mmmmm, where to start?

    First thanks to Chen for teaching Tex how to read logos. I did think I’d placed an ‘R’ in there as opposed to an ‘L’.

    Actually, Tex, I’d probably be happier if you said the L stood for Liberal. 🙂

    I’m not sure what inspired Tex’s vehement allegiance to “Goodbye Natalie”, to whom my comment was addressed. What I find fascinating is that it was Natalie who originally used “Dancing with the Stars” fans as a tool to insult Chen. It was (s)he who called Chen “slow” and cited the number of “Dancing with the Stars” fans as evidence of how far our country has fallen. So you see Tex, if you’re gonna throw insults at someone, start with Natalie. (S)he’s the one who doesn’t respect your TV viewing habits.

    There is this argument that I am elitist because I don’t identify with Sarah Palin or I somehow think I’m smarter than she or her followers. The fact is I believe Obama is smarter than Palin and smarter than I am, and probably smarter than most of the folks posting on this blog. As Chen suggested, I WANT someone MUCH smarter than I running our country. If I want to have a beer, I’ll call up one of my buddies (actually none of my buddies drink beer but that’s beside the point). I don’t need Joe Sixpack in the White House and I hate to give Tex and Natalie and The Red Pill a wake up call, but academic excellence at Obama’s level is a confidence builder. Being in the bottom five of your graduating class (McCain) is not. Is academic excellence the only criteria for choosing a President? Of course not. But to hear folks call Obama elitist because he is smart just shows they’ve learned nothing from Bush. (BTW, Bush comes from a rich family, Obama does not so who is the elitist in that comparison?)

    Finally, what puzzles me even more is why folks like Tex have such difficulty with civil debate. Tex, it’s as though you have no understanding of how your style so seriously detracts from your ability to get a point across. I’ve had some furious opponents comment on my blog but I respect 99% of them because they reason and they argue effectively. I don’t necessarily agree with them but I respect them for the careful presentation of their views. Perhaps instead of “unloading” on other people’s blogs, you should start your own and get some practice at disciplined debate.


  44. Rutherford,

    For somebody so wise, guess you didn’t happen to notice numbnuts that Tex and Natalie are one and the same person; an inside joke between Chen and me. Next time, check the gravatar before you start preaching about your enlightenment, thinking you’re clever. Your ass is showing again. 🙂

    I think you need a reminder that General Patton graduated DEAD LAST in his class at West Point. Seems he did okay, didn’t he? Now knowing you disdain the military, I must assume you don’t understand West Point is the cream of the crop? And how do we know Obama appeals to academic excellence? He won’t let his records be released. But then I wouldn’t expect a shill like you to pick up on that – too busy parroting the progressive mantra…

    Truth be known, your prophet is a quota hire and the fact his Muslim daddy got him in there being an alum. Funny how you forget that Bush, who you consider one of the dumbest people in the world, got his MBA from Harvard. So which is Rutherford L? Are both brilliant; or both just a product of a legacy?

    Your cluelessness about the messiah being an intellectual heavyweight is a joke. Let me remind you again, Obama didn’t even know the states that adjoin his own. And apparently doesn’t know how many states there are either. And you want to tell me he’s brilliant? Baloney. He’s a teleprompter with cue card of hope and change…deep for the bobble-headed lemming crowd.

    So you can understand on your menial level, I unload on you because frankly I don’t like you, don’t respect you or your ignorant opinions, and generally don’t care for your method of debate because you don’t debate. You rant or you parrot. You’re without original thought. I think you and that revolting turd to be two of the biggest hypocrites on WordPress and equally worthless.

    So when Chen thinks I’ve become too undisciplined for such stimulating discussion on the likes of “The Chamber” (actually that’s humorous coming from a you), he’s welcome to ban me. Unfortunately for you and something you desperately lack, Chen’s got a little humor, a little thicker skin, and doesn’t mind the give and take – something censoring blog owners like you don’t understand.

    Finally Rutherford, you’re real problem is you don’t generate enough traffic on that abysmal piece of crap you loosely call a blog. Perhaps you ought to worry more about your miserable personal failing of being of any interest to somebody other than your mother, than concern yourself with what others post at someone else’s blog.


  45. Tex, I’m kinda torn right now. Wonder Palm? You might have earned one here.


  46. rabbit-

    I so far haven’t been happy with Palin. Maybe Chen’s sexism is rubbing off on me I don’t know. I find myself cringing every time she speaks. I honestly have not heard her say anything with much meaning at best, possible sheer ignorance at worse. I do, however, go into the debate with an open mind.

    How was I being sexist?

    Definitely a double standard when it comes to Biden. Dude can utter absolute absurdities and he gets away with because….he always utters absolute absurdities. Partisan Chen never busts Biden’s balls. How come?

    I addressed Biden’s gaffes and the liabilities that come with them here.


  47. Well Chen,

    There was one mistake before you give me the undeserved wonder palm. McCain, I believe graduated from the Naval Academy and not West Point as I posted. Either way, the point holds because both are prestigious universities.

    But the thing I disdain about folks like Rutherford Limp is he is blatantly dishonest and blatantly one-sided. He’ll blame the economy on Bush or the Republicans, not noticing it’s a Dimocratically Controlled Congress and the roaring 90s was a Republican controlled Congress. You can’t have it both ways and that is exactly what blowhards like Limp try to do in supporting their arguments. It’s the oldest trick in the book but it still works with many a lost soul.

    Either way, Limp is wrong. Guys like Limp never have had a monetary clue and never will. Because gov’t is not a wealth creator and never has been. The best thing our gov’t can do is lend its support to the system – something both groups do poorly; just the Dims do it more poorly with over-regulation and higher corporate taxes. The business sector does create wealth and it happens to cycle just like it is now. It always has; it always will. Sustained growth is an impossibility and we really ought to worry about trends – not cycles. We’ll get through this too just like we always have, no matter the President because America is greater than its gov’t.

    Limp, as indicated by his posts, thinks he is one of the gifted. He tells you as much on that crock of a blog and therefore, he needs to inject his wisdom into other’s lives while using tax payer money to do so. I’d think a lot more of him if he was as generous with his own earnings.

    He’s deluded himself to thinking he’s talented and wise, when in reality his group is a major source of the problem in creating dependency. And creating a dependency is exactly what’s wrong with America right now. It’s the Great Society crowd repeating history and you would think my now, people would have figured out it doesn’t work.


  48. So let me get this straight Tex … we’re supposed to just let the “business cycle” naturally turn itself around as it always does, while folks lose their homes and commerce stops because of the credit freeze?

    As for your dual identity as Natalie, you’ve really gone off the absurd deep end. YOU call Chen “slow” and demean the audience that favored Obama’s performance, citing their love for “Dancing with the Stars” and then in the next breath (in your other Sybil-like identity) get upset with my correcting you on who the “Dancing with the Stars” demographic is. You’re the one calling Palin supporters dopes. As you’ve pointed out, you can’t have it both ways.

    LOL, as for my being a “censoring blog owner”, I’m such a censor that I offered my most vocal opponent a co-writing spot on my blog to present his views and mix things up a bit. Tex, it really helps to know what you’re talking about before you sling crap into the fan.

    As for Chen’s sense of humor, Tex, I didn’t know your posts were intended as satire. Thanks for the correction. Now I’ll know better than to take you seriously.


  49. Rutherford Limp,

    So let me get this straight Tex … we’re supposed to just let the “business cycle” naturally turn itself around as it always does, while folks lose their homes and commerce stops because of the credit freeze?

    I would try to explain the concept of free enterprise, risk, shareholders, and corporate responsibility to you, but it would be beyond your limited economic and financial comprehension as you personally attested to on your lovely blog.

    Let me ask you a question Rutherford. How do you know commerce is just going to freeze? Because the “sky is falling” fat cats, the same ones that got us into the jam, are saying so? I haven’t seen Johnson & Johnson, Exxon-Mobil, or a host of other leading businesses freezing, have you? My two best friends are small business owners and they’re not worried about credit or meeting payroll – something about accounts receivable being greater than accounts payable – a concept foreign to your type. About the only Dow 30 I see freezing is Jeffrey Immelt and GE because they’re a lib company so mismanaged as to think MSNBC and Keith Olbermannn a great idea – and some corrupt, mismanaged financial institutions affiliated with the Dimocratic party.

    And as far as the people losing their homes, who is exactly that is losing their home? The ones that couldn’t afford the home to begin with with your party mainly pushing for the easy money? Barney Frank, Chris Dodd ring a bell? This is what happens when you live on the edge Rutherford. When things turn south, your monetary future does too. You ought to learn that before you join up with the crowd you run with – don’t worry you’re already there with the moral and truthful part.

    I suppose you being the bleeding heart (when someone else is left holding the bailout ball) think it’s now my responsibility to provide someone an easy out for their woeful decisions? Well I’ll tell you what Rutherford. Why don’t you and your proofreading wife go down to your saving’s account and draw out about half of what your worth and donate it to the cause. Then get back with me, and I’ll see if I can share in good will. And being that libs are notoriously cheap (ask any waiter), when you can show me your own personal sacrifice, then I’ll be glad to help out. And you can thank Obama’s financial advising gurus for helping those living on the edge to get there, which, of course, you always fail to mention. Like I said above, your ilk is blatantly one-sided and blatantly dishonest. The only think you excel at is framing the debate – but on a little inspection, your “facts” generally prove null.

    So we have this straight, I’m not calling Palin supporters dopes. I’m calling you a dope. As for Chen’s sense of humor, Chen and I have some history. Chen knows that I bust his nerts and I am rough on him. In return needles me back – just a different style. I still like him, though I think him a loon.

    You, on the other hand, I think a patronizing asshole, a lost cause and a facade. You epitomize everything wrong with the left. You know your partner – your ying. When I soiled myself having to peruse through you conniving, lying, boastful blog last night (I loved the part where you preached about having to help the last able not as wise as you – gawd), I noticed a total of about 20-30 cumulative comments from three or four posters. I can do that for Chen with one turd response dropped from above. I just shake the monkey cage and out come the chimps.

    Perhaps you ought to think about changing your business blog model. It looks to be an utter failure in every aspect. It’s ugly, it looks like it was designed by a 4th grader, and it’s void of content.


  50. Here Rutherford “L”,

    You’re such a fair and honest comrade, why don’t you post these famous quotes about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac on your world famous blog? And also in the interest of fairness, why don’t you count the number of inept predictions, tally them by party, and post that on your blog?

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122290574391296381.html


  51. […] point that you just can’t deny? This is what happened to me last night when I ventured into ChenZhen’s Chamber (the blog of the founder of the WordPress Political Blogger’s Alliance) and encountered a […]


  52. Obama has demonstrated over the past 18 months that he has the knowledge and judgement for the job.)

    GUFFAW! And what do you base that baloney on? Your brilliant opinion? You can’t anymore back that up with history, performance or facts than a man in the moon. So I need to add blowhard and liar to the list of descriptors when I think of you. But then, I already knew that.

    Lawd, I could have turned that drivel around you penned, changed places and said the same thing about you except I don’t think I’m the shooting star that you see when you look in the mirror. You still going to help the less fortunate, the less wise, the less talented big guy like a good lib?

    The only thing you got right in that typical, libbie condenscending POS was that you are a limp dick.

    And since it looks like your lying lightweights will win the election because of the fickle American public looking for someone to blame, you better get used to the arrows shooting your way.

    Because for the next four years, any time you and I meet up, I’m going to make your miserable life even more miserable by playing the same hatin’ game you’ve been playing the last eight years.


  53. oops…condescending!

    General, WordPress ever given thought to a Preview Box yet? Why don’t you use your creative stroke to get them to add that option?


  54. Dag, Tex. While I couldn’t resist the opportunity to accurately characterize your commenting style, you should at least give me credit for giving you some due. Congress, as a whole, Democrat and Republican alike, messed up. Point made, point taken. What makes you think John McCain will make things any better?

    Here’s your man arguing with himself about the bailout bill. Pay close attention at the one minute, fifteen second mark and then tell me how this fills you with confidence about the future should he get elected.

    Oh yeah, I forgot. We don’t need to worry. He’ll have Sarah Palin to advise him.


  55. Chen, Tex finally said something with which I agree. We could use a preview button for comments. I needed one for a comment I posted on your Palin-Biden thread. So, if you do have any influence, you now have two votes from opposite ends of the political spectrum. 🙂


  56. Because for the next four years, any time you and I meet up, I’m going to make your miserable life even more miserable by playing the same hatin’ game you’ve been playing the last eight years.

    Ehhh, Tex you got your math wrong. You’re gonna have to make my life miserable for the next eight years. 🙂 And as for my “hatin’ game”, I must remind you, I’m a lover, not a fighter.


  57. Rutherford,

    A lover, huh? I was hoping you wouldn’t have an opportunity to procreate and help to further ruin civilization for our successors. 😦

    When we’re done with Jimmy Carter Redux, the neo-pagan crowd will again take another generation to make a comeback and your type will quietly slither away to irrelevancy for a time. Like Satan, your brand of evil never completely goes away.

    I do give you lefties and the MSM credit for the cleverness of framing this a vote about how you’re going to help make things better because of how bad things are. And you’ll do this because you are very intelligent and know better how to run other’s lives as you state on your blog. It really does remind me of 1975. It is overdue that Americans recognize how utterly bankrupt you and your ilk are, so we need the wake up call.

    See Rutherford, being that you and I are about the same age, we recognize each generation Americans need a kick to recognize the failure of modern liberalism. But its failure is as much a guarantee as the seasons changing. For liberalism can not point to one success as I’ve challenged you to point to; that is, unless I give credit for the game semantics and misleading about issues. At that, you excel. The fact that everything you guys administer eventually falls into the toilet gets lost on many of the bleating sheep. And they have to personally experience your dysfunction before they “get it.” That is human nature.

    I do have a few predictions, though.

    In two years, the political landscape will radically change like ’94, then in four years, the messiah will gracefully step down ala LBJ as a pariah where libs will try to rewrite history but most folks will finally recognize “progressive” abject failure. In some ways, it’s been miraculous that floundering Republicans have been able to hold off the charge this long – because frankly their leadership lacks too, Sarah Palin not withstanding.

    I predict The Prophet’s hideous, American hatin’ wife will become an anathema to about 80% of Americans. And I’d be willing to bet a large sum of money on that.

    Does your lofty, Harvard educated net worth allow for such a bet Rutherford about the Obama regime being an abysmal failure? I mean, reading about how lean your personal life is, I can understand how you might want to fudge a little. But if you’re really as confident and wise as you attest on your blog, wouldn’t the bet be a sure thing?


  58. I did send a message to the WordPress people about a “preview” button for comments. I know that Blogger uses it, so I thought it’d be worth a shot. Lets see what they say…


  59. General,

    You’re confused, a loon and pointy-headed lefty. But unlike Rutherford, you’re a good man too.

    Every man has got to know his limitations…mine is poor proofreading skills (amongst a host of other things).


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