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Official Chamber Biden-Palin Debate Thread

October 1, 2008

As a follow-up to the previous thread, I figured that I might as well start one for the much-anticipated and only VP debate.  I do this a day early so we can have room to make predictions, a little liveblogging (if anyone’s around), and reactions.

For now, I’m going to start with a few pre-debate thoughts…

First, it’d be irresponsible for the Chamber not to mention the notion that the various statements made by Palin these last few weeks has reduced the expectations of her to the lowest of levels (that’s what the media’s been implying, anyway).   To sum it up, Countdown put together a pretty good montage:

click to watch

click to watch

Could Palin “win” simply by showing up and not saying anything too embarrassing?  On the other hand, based on these interviews, is that even probable?

Second, to gain a little insight, we should highlight those who have debated Palin in the past, and those people are saying that she shouldn’t be underestimated

While policy wonks such as Biden might cringe, it seemed to me that Palin was simply vocalizing her strength without realizing it. During the campaign, Palin’s knowledge on public policy issues never matured – because it didn’t have to. Her ability to fill the debate halls with her presence and her gift of the glittering generality made it possible for her to rely on populism instead of policy.

Palin is a master of the nonanswer. She can turn a 60-second response to a query about her specific solutions to healthcare challenges into a folksy story about how she’s met people on the campaign trail who face healthcare challenges. All without uttering a word about her public-policy solutions to healthcare challenges.

Of course, most politicians rely on the ability to weild the “nonanswer” as a defense mechanism and to avoid being pinned down.  But tomorrow night’s debate will be a completely different set of circumstances.  This one will be on a national stage covering both domestic and international issues, and subjected to the spin and interpretation of the media and pundits across the country.   It remains to be seen she can pull this off outside of the familiar confines of her home turf.  After all, one would think that it’s a lot easier to do it when the issues exclusively deal with the state in which you’ve lived your whole life.  And given the fact that there’s been so much attention paid to the aforementioned cluelessness that she’s already displayed on the national and international issues, the “nonanswer” will now be something that people will be looking for and picking apart (if not outright mocking).

Finally, I’ll just add that Biden’s best approach is to exude confidence and competence and to be careful not to attack Palin in a condescending manner, as in doing so he risks coming across as a bully and turning people off.  In fact, the best advise would be to avoid attacking Palin at all.  The contrast between the two should be evident if he just plays it safe and answers the questions.

And with that, I open up the thread and start popping the popcorn…

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61 comments

  1. Why not question that the moderator, Gwen Ifill, of the upcoming Biden-Palin debate is pro-Obama. She wrote a book that praises Obama, obviously she will try her best to make Palin look bad in the debate Why couldn’t the moderator be more fair and bi-partisan?

    Why not make fun of Joe Biden, who thinks FDR was President in 1929, and thinks paying more taxes is patriotic?


  2. Well Equality, you bring up some good points there. I don’t think one can say that “obviously” Ifill will be a biased moderator. Anyone can check their personal feelings at the door, and with such a public setting, there’ll be considerable pressure for her to do just that. Who knows? Maybe she’ll overcompensate.

    And yeah, everyone knows about Biden’s misstatements, so that goes pretty much without saying. I think the reason why he gets more or less a pass is because, behind all the gaffes, there’s a consensus that he’s been around long enough and been involved with so many national and international issues that he knows what he’s talking about. Palin, on the other hand, doesn’t get that luxury, and so far her gaffes have been on a different level. Instead of confusing some basic facts in an attempt to answer a question, she’s demonstrated on several occasions that she doesn’t understand the question and has attempted to fake her way through it completely. In other words, its not about being ignorant of the facts, its being ignorant of the issue itself.

    Now, one of the reasons why I started this thread is for some discussion on who’s shortcomings will be more evident, and I’m glad you pointed that out. It should make for an interesting debate. Thanks for stopping by.


  3. And Obama’s gaffes? Like not knowing Russia’s role on the UN? Like his moronic capital gains hike, that he had to change the next day? Like his 24 hour 180 on Iran? Was that not a lack of understanding? Call it out Chen! Call it out! The crowd demands it!


  4. Ooooh boy, can’t wait. I’m such a geek. Have you seen this yet, the Vote Bitter Movement? Quite amusing I thought.


  5. Well, all you Palin dissers…

    Looked to me like the little gal whose been a nominated candidate for all of five weeks just held her own with your Senator of 35 years…

    And she damn sure connects with the American middle class more than your partisan Senator.


  6. Cute Lex,

    Here’s a button all my friends and I like to wear. You know us God and Country type:

    http://www.zazzle.com/obama_diss_button-145974393744037447

    I couldn’t find the T-shirt about Obama wanting to allow for more legalized infanticides.


  7. Ugh…I don’t think she connects, far too scripted. Not answering right on the money but close to it with her canned answers. Biden corrected her a good many times, though not for saying NOO-KYOO-LER…lol…She did hit a new record for saying “maverick” I believe.

    Tex, believe it or not, I am quite the staunch pro-lifer. I doubt if the next admin. will be able to do much one way or the other on that issue aside from possible S.C. Justices and just won’t tie myself to voting that issue alone. Actually Tex, I am pretty tied to “God and Country” also. I just don’t like the Palianator. Nice to watch the debate with you guys either way;)


  8. Oh Lex,

    Baloney. You just said, “I hate her guts on another site two weeks ago…” Biden has been one of the biggest partisan hacks the last 35 years. He’s the one that started all the crap and the man “Borked” was named after. What’s that been? 25 years?

    I don’t believe you and your pro-life credentials. Otherwise, you wouldn’t consider being an Obama fan who even tried to overturn the veto on partial birth abortion.

    I think you speak out of both sides of your mouth. You’re one thing here – quite another other places. Ever thought about running as a Dimocratic candidate?


  9. Tex, nope, I’m always honest online about being pro-life. Not my top priority in a year of massive health issues of my own, but I remember becoming quite the little “maverick” in the scene I hung out in for having that view; from then right up to now. I’m against abortion Tex, here, on my site and on all others.

    As for Bork and Biden’s history I’m not even old enough to have seen all that….LOL…As for saying I “hate her guts”, I’ve disliked Palin strongly from the moment she was picked. How’s that inconsistent? Ugh, whatever Tex, think I’m disingenuous all you want and I’ll think you all the more odd for never writing me as I have asked you to. I don’t dislike you BTW Tex. I may be going to bed though, but you’ll be here tomorrow;)


  10. I’ll think you all the more odd for never writing me as I have asked you to.

    LOL. Perhaps I never wrote because I never knew you asked. Where would you like me to write?


  11. Of course, Tex! Better for explaining these things than in comments. As for me stating my stance on abortion, why the heck would I do that here if it weren’t true? Most of my fellow left-leaning friends tend to not like that particular view of mine. I say it because it’s me.

    But please, just write me Tex. No sense in arguing all the time in comments;)

    Ahhhh…..the “Today Show” redux of the debate….it makes me sick all over again. Now I get to hear the word “maverick” 50 more times.


  12. Lex,

    But please, just write me Tex. No sense in arguing all the time in comments;)

    This time I won’t be a smart ass. It’s hard to do when I come to the Chamber. Do I find your “address” on a blog?

    BTW, I am sure you know like General Chen, if I didn’t think you interesting and somewhat talented, I wouldn’t bother you.

    There’s a few that post here (Rutherford L, Revolting Turd, Sensico) that I would probably stand up and cheer if I learned they just happened to disappear ala Jimmy Hoffa.

    As for me stating my stance on abortion, why the heck would I do that here if it weren’t true?

    Perhaps you could explain your inconsistency in tent then in continual praise of a man who comes as close to approving of infanticide as it gets? This is Planned Parenthood Personified.

    Ahhhh…..the “Today Show” redux of the debate….it makes me sick all over again. Now I get to hear the word “maverick” 50 more times.

    Maybe so, but if you thought Barack and Biden as outrageously phony as I do (like I do most libs), six months of “hope and change” would make you queasy as well.


  13. I know you guys are going to find this hard to believe, but I missed the entire debate. I’ll have to catch a re-run.


  14. Good googly-moogly! I don’t even comment in this thread and I get backhanded by Tex. What gives? And now you want me dead? Sounds like you have some serious anger issues.

    @Lex … don’t believe for a minute that Tex “wouldn’t bother you” if he didn’t find you “interesting and somewhat talented”. He considers me boring, pretentious and an utter hack but it sure doesn’t stop him from devoting entire paragraphs to character assassination.

    Lex, for what it’s worth, I’m fully with you on Palin. Despite her slightly exceeding the very low expectations that were set for her last night, it will not be enough to jumpstart McCain’s campaign.


  15. Palin did an ok job. Tex would have done better, much better. And I mean that. At times, she came off as a prepackaged Reagan wannabe. I honestly do not think she has the experience to be President. I hold her to the same standards I do Obama. Last year, at this time, Obama was about as clueless as Palin and he has proved it many times with his nonsensical sound offs. That being said, I happen to agree with Palin more.

    I’m not thrilled about this election.

    I pose a question for the mighty Tex. Would you be comfortable with Palin as president?


  16. Rutherford Limp,

    Good googly-moogly! I don’t even comment in this thread and I get backhanded by Tex. What gives? And now you want me dead? Sounds like you have some serious anger issues.

    GUFFAW! I’ll back hand you every chance I get. If you were within kicking distance, I’d put my boot up your ass just for practice.

    I don’t want you dead…I’m much too shy to wish for that.

    I just want you to disappear like a lefty fart into the wind.


  17. I pose a question for the mighty Tex. Would you be comfortable with Palin as president?

    Mighty Tex, huh. LOL Then you haven’t talked to Mrs. Tex.

    Would I be comfortable with Sarah Palin as President? You bet. In fact Rabbit, the experience of Joe Biden, John McCain, and especially scumbag, black liberal theology, closet racist like the Prophet Obama are exactly why we find ourselves in this crappy position to begin with.

    I would vote for Sarah Palin for no other reason than she comes across as real and she comes across as honest.

    Do I think she’s a genius? No, and I don’t think you need to be an intellect either. But I do think you have to be wise. And though I like George Bush because I think him a patriot, he’s not wise and he is a horrid communicator.

    Sarah Palin is eloquent enough to motivate us – right now, something we desperately lack.


  18. Tex-

    Here’s a button all my friends and I like to wear. You know us God and Country type:

    http://www.zazzle.com/obama_diss_button-145974393744037447

    I couldn’t find the T-shirt about Obama wanting to allow for more legalized infanticides.

    You actually wear that button? Its a bit childish, dontcha think?


  19. Chen,

    You actually wear that button? Its a bit childish, dontcha think?

    Do you know that the word gullible isn’t in the dictionary? Right?

    Any more childish than all those bobble-heads in the background at each and every Obama sermon while the rubes are inspired by the utterance of the Prophet?


  20. Chen, you’re killing me. What, setting up the thread wore you out and you slept through the debate? ROFL. Here, read this if you want some more laughs. Nuttiest thing I’ve read online in ages.


  21. Here you go Rutherford “L”,

    Why don’t you plaster this one on your world famous blog too, being that you’re “fair” and all.

    http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/09/28/franks_fingerprints_are_all_over_the_financial_fiasco/


  22. Tex, you’re throwing me so many good leads I can hardly keep up. Your last one from a few days ago was fodder for my most recent post.

    This one (specifically about Barney) is somewhat redundant. The message is understood at this point.


  23. “my most recent post” in previous comment was supposed to be hyperlinked. Here goes again:

    My latest post.


  24. Rutherford Limp,

    Tex, you’re throwing me so many good leads I can hardly keep up. Your last one from a few days ago was fodder for my most recent post.

    Yes, I know. I was hoping you had named be. That way, your 2 posters and your wife would know who the blowhard was. And I might add since your post apparently was a feeble attempt to drum up business on your bleak blog, your post provided fodder for me as well. There’s nothing I love more than to make fun of faux “intellects.”

    And since you’re too ignorant to read the previous post where our “conversation” was initiated, I left you a heartwarming thank you to know how honored I felt.

    The best part was I actually felt my intellect drop by simply clicking on your link…it was actually some cathartic to go absolutely brain dead for a moment.

    Perhaps there is something to “progressive” bloggers after all. It is much easier to live a bubble pretending your worth something.


  25. Gad…

    be/me; some/somewhat


  26. OK, I’ve now reviewed the transcript and watched the majority of the debate. I gotta say that my first thought was “what in the heck is with all those winks?” I propose that somewhere during “debate camp”, Palin whipped out a wink, and one of the handlers said “Wait a second, I liked that, do that again!”. So, she did, and the group cried “BRILLIANT! Use the wink!”. LOL Sure enough, the wingnut faithful lapped it up:

    A very wise TV executive once told me that the key to TV is projecting through the screen. It’s one of the keys to the success of, say, a Bill O’Reilly, who comes through the screen and grabs you by the throat. Palin too projects through the screen like crazy. I’m sure I’m not the only male in America who, when Palin dropped her first wink, sat up a little straighter on the couch and said, “Hey, I think she just winked at me.” And her smile. By the end, when she clearly knew she was doing well, it was so sparkling it was almost mesmerizing. It sent little starbursts through the screen and ricocheting around the living rooms of America. This is a quality that can’t be learned; it’s either something you have or you don’t, and man, she’s got it.

    ROTFLMAO!! Starbursts!?!? hahaha

    Ya know, the more I think about it, the more I’ve realized that, after this debate, the Palin supporters felt obligated to grab the pom-poms and wave and yell as loud as they could. With all the criticism she’s been getting, they must have instinctually thought that, if the praise was gleaming enough, perhaps it would overshadow the fact that she really only cleared the lowest of bars here. Malkin? Guilty. The more intellectually honest folk? Eh, not so much. Any honest observer could tell that she made it solely on avoiding most of the questions and regurgitating the various talking points, while throwing in a wink and a smile for good measure. Most Americans didn’t fall for it.

    You could tell throughout the debate that Biden was trying to restrain himself. He finally got sick of the “maverick” meme and went on a nice riff on that, but still managed to keep it rather respectful.

    The bottom line is that Palin is still a joke. Congratulating her for her debate performance is like congratulating Eddie the Eagle for making it down the hill. Like, “whoohoo!, you didn’t wipe!”.


  27. I actually read Rutherford’s blog. Basically, using about 700 too many words, he makes the claim that middle America digs Palin because she reinforces their claim that the presidency is their “birthright”. He then quips, without remotely picking up on the irony of his comment and the fact his candidate for the next president is black, that minorities have never been told they can be successful.

    I suppose it’s the egalitarianism of middle America that Rutherford dismisses. But then again, egalitarianism is dialectically opposed (ha ha..i said dialectically) to any kind of notion involving birth right.

    So what the living hell is this Rutherford trying to say? He thinks working people are into birth rights? Trust me dude, you can’t be more wrong.

    Dude, Middle America supports Palin because she shares their values. I would rant on about Rutherford’s trite psychoanalysis of Middle America, but his point is so sophomoric it doesn’t even make a good chew toy for the Rabbit to grind his buckaroos on.

    If this election proves anything, it proves that the notion of “birth rite” don’t mean shit. You damn right real Americans believe they can achieve greatness. How? Through hard work and talent. And, as much as I disagree with Obama, at least his victory will do wonders proving my point right. Your blog is illogical and just plain simple.


  28. Chen,

    LOL. Chen and as the election gets closer, you’re getting worse. But the Eddie the Eagle contrast was pretty funny. Now let us talk about reality…

    You’re man, Senator Flunk out, has been a ranking member of the Judiciary Committee for 35 years. And yet, Jolting Joe made this statement:

    Vice President Cheney has been the most dangerous vice president we’ve had probably in American history. The idea he doesn’t realize that Article I of the Constitution defines the role of the vice president of the United States, that’s the Executive Branch. He works in the Executive Branch. He should understand that. Everyone should understand that.

    The problem is, Article 1 of the Constitution grants the Vice President his/her role. It is Article 2 that provides the Executive branch their enumerated powers. Article 1 is for the legislature.”

    And this is supposedly the man’s field of expertise? That’s like taking your car in for a repair and the top mechanic telling you the problem with your automobile is the wing fell off.

    Now I recognize you’re a died in the wool neo-pagan. But even you can’t lie big enough to swing the blatantly obvious – Obama and Biden are morons. I don’t expect other morons to recognize this fact but it is the truth.

    How about this beauty by Jolting Joe?

    We, along with France, kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon?

    That idiocy deserves the WTF? Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese government! But then I forget we kicked the Shiites out of Iraq. How stupid can the leaders of your party be Chen? For 35 years, this clown has sat in Senate. And Joe can’t even get the simplest of facts right.

    I heard second hand from someone actually in the audience that people were actually snickering at Biden’s comment about being “bi-partisan.” They were openly laughing at him Chen because people know Biden is one of the main hacks in Washington.

    You’re side will probably win because the Republicans in gov’t did a poor job of controlling spending and the Iraq War. Bush is getting hammered for the economy, though Congress bears a much larger share of the blame. It’s the way American politics works – the sitting President is like the quarterback; too much blame and too much credit.

    But if you think this vote is going to be a referendum on how wonderful people think Obama is, you couldn’t be more wrong. Time will prove that fact…I guarantee it.

    Enjoy the honeymoon for a time – because things will be very different in opinion about this time next year.


  29. Wow man, I just had a post go up in smoke. It was a funny one too back direct right at Chen showing once again, the Everest height naivete. Oh well…

    Rabbit, that is why I like you – I love folks who recognize horseshit when they see it. In reading Rutherford’s blog, it oozes with a false sense of superiority – he’s much smarter than the rest of us, you know so therefore, he needs to direct important facets of our lives – like how to raise children and manage our monies. I’m really surprised he isn’t a Hillary Rotten supporter.

    Rutherford epitomizes that coastal breed of faux brilliance. He drops the “Harvard” education about every fourth line…sickening, really.


  30. Actually, I think I might have stolen the Eddie the Eagle comparison from Rachael Maddow, but oh well…

    Assuming you’re right, and Biden made those mistakes, surely Palin should have pointed them out, right?


  31. Disappointing that Palin didn’t. I don’t know if Republicans go brain dead in debates or simply caught up in the heat of the moment. Maybe they’re trying to be polite. Don’t ask me…McCain doesn’t seem to have the gift of one upping the opponent either.

    But if you think me wrong with those facts, I’ll be glad to retract them – but I think you’ll find I’m right.


  32. Don’t ask me…

    Could it be that Palin is even more clueless? She apparently had no knowledge of Hamas or how they came to power. The inability to name a Supreme Court decision she disagreed with. She (arguably) knows Alaska, and that’s about it.

    Search your feelings Tex, you know it to be true.


  33. Search your feelings Tex, you know it to be true.

    This coming from the man who plays kung fu in his living room, probably with Play Station in hand? Oh Chen, you’re something else. LOL…

    Okay, I searched my feelings.

    No, I don’t think Palin is clueless – she’s got an 80% approval rating. If she is clueless, we need more like her. Inexperienced, yes – but I thought her performance excellent considering she’s been a Washington insider all of 5 weeks.

    The question you ought to be asking yourself is, “What has Joe Biden learned in 35 years? Why is he so confused on basic issues?…”

    Chenster, you’re probably going to win this one – but I’m telling you your prophet will set your party back about 40 years when this is all said and done. I can guarantee it.

    Every generation needs one really horrid Dimocrat running the place for 75% of the country to get a reminder of why you don’t want the federal gov’t any more involved than necessary.


  34. The “prophet” thing is getting played out, Tex. You know as well as anyone that the basis of my support for Obama has been the issues. He’s very much a human being, prone to make mistakes like everyone else. I should really give you the strawman emblem when you say things like “your prophet” (or the like). I dunno, maybe I thought it was cute (in a patheically desperate sort of way) at first, but now its just old.

    BTW- “search you feelings” is a Star Wars reference


  35. BTW- “search you feelings” is a Star Wars reference

    Yes, young Kung Fu Skywalker, I know…unless you’re older than I think, I was watching Star Wars before you were born.

    If it pleases your honor, I prefer “THE PROPHET!”, but I got a million nicknames for the Dishonorable Elijah Obama…

    So out of my utmost respect for you General, I will try and refrain from “THE PROPHET OBAMA”, even if the black theological racist Obama is a horrid candidate.

    So tell me General, exactly what issues do you support of Elijah’s besides the slang of hope and change?


  36. By the way Chen, just in case Obama wins, better get used to it. Because of the disrespect you guys have shown towards Bush, I am going to be as absolutely disrespectful and hateful as I can be to your candidate and will do everything within the law to ruin his chances of successful leadership.

    Nothing personal, but consider it payback for 7+ years of listening to liberal bullshit, anti-military, and anti-American rhetoric. What goes around, comes around.



  37. Come on Tex, you’re not thinking clearly here. What if Obama ends up being half decent? You get so caught up in the politics, it becomes gang warfare for you. What seperates us from them is our ability not to behave in that way. WWJD?


  38. Tex-

    Yes, young Kung Fu Skywalker, I know…unless you’re older than I think, I was watching Star Wars before you were born.

    Um…no.

    So tell me General, exactly what issues do you support of Elijah’s besides the slang of hope and change?

    I was referring to the “Why Obama” series here in the Chamber. I know you were around for that.

    By the way Chen, just in case Obama wins, better get used to it. Because of the disrespect you guys have shown towards Bush, I am going to be as absolutely disrespectful and hateful as I can be to your candidate and will do everything within the law to ruin his chances of successful leadership.

    Nothing personal, but consider it payback for 7+ years of listening to liberal bullshit, anti-military, and anti-American rhetoric. What goes around, comes around.

    Gimme a break Tex. Bush enjoyed a 90% approval rating after 9/11. Pretty much every negative thing said about Bush, he’s earned. From the disgrace of Katrina, to the unnecessary and mismanaged boondoggle of the Iraq war, to our tanked economy and everything in between. We’re supposed to respect all that?

    The fact that you’d consider it all “anti-American”, carry a grudge and be willing to act out of spite on behalf of the worst president modern history leads me to deduce that Bush is YOUR “prophet”. I think you should listen to the rabbit.


  39. Rabbit,

    What if Obama ends up being half decent? You get so caught up in the politics, it becomes gang warfare for you. What seperates us from them is our ability not to behave in that way. WWJD?

    First, WWJD? LOL. So you think Jesus approves of Obama’s church, do you? You think Jesus approves of a man’s wish to overturn the partial birth abortion veto? You think Jesus approves of a man who said, “There are many ways to heaven?”

    Sorry Rabbit – you’re one of my favorites and though I almost find the question of Christ and politic sacrilege, I don’t think Christ would give the thumbs up to the Dimocratic party.

    The only thing I won’t do that Chen and his crowd have done is continually lie. Otherwise, the mudslinging starts November 5th.


  40. Chen,

    Now you have moved into typical victimhood lying – pathetic which you misspelled from above.

    Bush enjoyed a 90% approval rating after 9/11.

    Only because you were scared for your weakling lives. The minute you felt safe, it was back to square one. And that is the real truth. Right before that, Bush was called a Nazi, stole the vote from Al Gore, was called every dirty name in the book, and had his daughters mocked by your MSM. You’re lying thru you teeth Chen or your memory very poor.

    Pretty much every negative thing said about Bush, he’s earned. From the disgrace of Katrina,

    Again, passing blame to Bush when it was Dimocratic city, and Dimocratic governor, and Dimocratic state that failed miserably. Another bald faced lie and another point the fingers when the real admission of guilt should be your shameless party of Huey Long and 70 years of Dimocratic corruption. And that was a gov’t dependence that people like you help foster. I noticed last spring, Iowa and Missouri did just fine – but no mention from your ilk or the MSM. Outrageous double standard at work – just like the Chamber.

    to the unnecessary and mismanaged boondoggle of the Iraq war,

    Like Obama’s failure to admit the surge worked? Hyprocrisy at its finest. I’m used to it at THE CHAMBER FROM YOUR PROPHET while you guys root for more soldiers to be killed so you can use it to hang around Bush’s neck.

    to our tanked economy and everything in between.

    With Dimocratic Congress that refuses to take any part of the blame. Again, you reek of hypocrisy and the double standard. Actually, that comment really is ignorant on your behalf and shows a complete lack of understanding or intellect.

    We’re supposed to respect all that?

    Like I said, get used to it because I am going to give you a taste of your own medicine. And unless you were born before 1977, I was watching Star Wars before you were born.

    Boy, I hope your not that old – with the childish things I read here, it would be a pathetic commentary and time for you to grow up.


  41. I fixed your tags there Tex.

    Look, I don’t see how anyone can look at where we were 8 years ago and where we are today, and not conclude that something has gone very, very wrong. Is it all Bush’s fault? Of course not. But its pretty hard to say anything positive about what he’s done, that’s for sure.

    Get the sense that these presidential campaigns have been going on forever? Do you wonder why? Simple. He’s an embarrassment, and the vast majority of Americans can’t wait to show him the door. Anxious, actually.

    Katrina? Dude. Bush was playing a friggin guitar while NO flooded. At least he apologized, though.

    The surge worked? I’m not even sure what that means anymore. I suppose you can say that it worked if you’re looking at the whole situation thru a keyhole. But the troops are still there, we’re still spending $10 bil. a month, and the Iraqi gov. and sectarian situation is still a house of cards. But congrats to McCain and Bush, cause they’ve managed to throw some water on the fire that they shouldn’t have set in the first place. There’s a reason why the “right about the surge” meme isn’t resonating, Tex.

    The economy? Bush’s fault? Yea, I dunno. As much as I want to tie our woes to the aforementioned boondoggle, that might not be the whole story. I seem to recall a balanced budget under Clinton, though. Well, that, and $1 gas, and a dollar that was worth something. Stuff like that. And the trend was there before the Dems took control of Congress. Most “Joe six-packs” out there aren’t going to remember the policies of Barney Frank or whoever, they’re just going to remember that the Bush years really, really sucked financially.

    And, yes, I was born before 1977.


  42. First, WWJD? LOL. So you think Jesus approves of Obama’s church, do you?

    Tex, you don’t want to go there after we’ve seen videos of Palin’s “witch doctor” laying hands on her.

    Rabbit, I don’t follow you … how does Obama’s success disprove that few black children are encouraged to believe that the sky is the limit? I don’t think it is a stretch to say that even in 21st century America, there are preconceptions about the glass ceiling for minorities vs non-minorities. If this were not the case, Obama’s race and Clinton’s and Palin’s gender would get no press at all. You are either naive or disingenuous to propose that an egalitarian society is in fact egalitarian. It’s an ideal that has not yet been achieved.

    By the way, if you (Tex and Rabbit) are going to lower yourselves to read my blog, then at least pay Chen the courtesy of not cluttering up his blog with comments about me. Show some cajones and talk to me in “my house”.

    As for all the nonsense about Obama, the Prophet and Palin, the savior of Joe and Jill Sixpack, I’ll leave that response to Chen who is doing a fantastic job of poking holes in your absurd propositions.


  43. Chen,

    I have a few questions for you which gets to heart of the manner between people voting for Obama and people voting for McCain – and what I perceive to be the hypocrisy and double standards of you, your party, and its supporters. And I use these because I think it shows the utter disregard for the truth you have. But you’re big on distortions. So I ask you…

    Concerning the floods in Iowa vs. New Orleans

    (1) Where were all of the Hollywood celebrities holding telethons asking for help in restoring Iowa and helping the folks affected by the floods? Far more people were impacted than LA.

    (2) Where were all the MSM and the Chamber asking the tough questions about why the federal government hasn’t solved the problem? Asking where the FEMA trucks (and trailers) were?

    (3) Why didn’t the Federal Government relocate Iowa people to free hotels in Chicago?

    (4) When will ardent Obama supporter and fellow racist Spike Lee say that the Federal Government blew up the levees that failed in Des Moines?

    (5) Where are Sean Penn and the Dixie Chicks?

    (6) Where are all the looters stealing high-end tennis shoes and big screen television sets in Iowa?

    (7) Did we hear Governor Chet Culver say that he wants to rebuild a ‘vanilla’ Iowa, because that’s the way God wants it?

    (8) Where was the hysterical 24/7 MSM coverage, complete with reports of cannibalism?

    (9) Where was Chen, and Rutherford and the MSM declaring that George Bush hates white, rural people?

    (10) Why do we never hear about the Iowa flooding ever again, though the property loss much greater than New Orleans?

    You don’t get it…


  44. Rutherford,

    As for all the nonsense about Obama, the Prophet and Palin, the savior of Joe and Jill Sixpack, I’ll leave that response to Chen who is doing a fantastic job of poking holes in your absurd propositions.

    LOL! What’s great Rutherford is that when you show up, Chen actually starts to look more fair. He ought to kiss your Harvard ring for making him look like a genius.

    Tex, you don’t want to go there after we’ve seen videos of Palin’s “witch doctor” laying hands on her.

    Yeah, I’ll take it up. Being your ignorance of politics is only surpassed by your ignorance of Christianity – except the tacit cheap shots, of course; you and Bill Maher. St. Paul, the author of most of the New Testament and 1st Century Witch Doctor, did the same. You going to diss him too giant?

    But don’t worry Limp…here’s one thing I know for sure. You can take that up with Jesus because you’ll get your chance.

    By the way, if you (Tex and Rabbit) are going to lower yourselves to read my blog, then at least pay Chen the courtesy of not cluttering up his blog with comments about me. Show some cajones and talk to me in “my house”.

    Somehow cajones, “my house”, and Rutherford Limp just don’t jive. I can’t speak for my buddy Dead Rabbit as he can more than handle himself with a lightweight like you, but here’s my question in return? What’s it matter where I mock you and your horrid thought process (here or your bleak blog)? Busting your nuts is busting your nuts.

    Besides, I got a few standards, however low. I know you’re trying to drive up your comment entries, but that was feeble attempt even for you Rutherford. I don’t want my name from my keyboard associated with that dismal piece of crap blog you write and hopefully never to return – it was like watching a train wreck. I’ll leave it to you to come here to read of my disdain for you…


  45. Have you ever seen the size of a rabbit’s testicles in proportion to its body? Tea bagging you’re blog would simply create an intellectual eclipse, my rabbit reproductive unit drowning out your shortsightedness. In other words, you’re not worthy of Dead Rabbit.

    I only sound off on one political blog. This my home. I got to go to da docks, I’ll be back tonight.


  46. Well, that was certainly creative, rabbit. Hopefully everyone knows what “tea bagging” is.

    I’m off to work as well. BBL


  47. Rabbit,

    Tea bagging, huh? GUFFAW…I thought I had heard it all but I must admit you’ve given me knew dock slang to add to my repertoire. First, copperheaded shill. Now the tea bagging routine.

    Something tells me Rutherford’s hide isn’t as thick as the Chen. I figure by the time you tea bag him, Rutherford will be speaking in tongues to Baal.


  48. Rabbit,

    Serious for a minute. I meant to give you a quote the other day when you asked me about how I felt about Palin and I forgot. It happens when you get old. Call this a gut feel from Tex.

    You remember the late, great William Buckley? I thought him one of the most capable men in Washington. He said this once:

    I would rather be governed by the first one thousand names in the Boston phone book than the whole of Harvard’s faculty.

    That’s how I feel about Obama. Forget all the racists and rogues he considers comrades, the amoral positions he holds, the nanny policies, or any of that jazz. Listening to Obama talk about the world is like I am sitting in classroom, being lectured by a very liberal professor.

    To hear Obama speak about the Middle East, or war, or the economy, it’s the same relativism and amorality you hear from an overeducated instructor – and the added arrogance Obama brings as indicated by the “keeping close their guns and religion” liberal meme. Obama has this scholastic view of the world. I think he is dangerous and naive. But that is exactly the reason that folks like Rutherford and Chen are impressed by Obama. Why they think he’s “smart.”

    All I really hear is some nebulous mantra of hope and change without much definition when Obama speaks. He can slap down an community activist resume with Ivy League credentials. But what does that really get you? Judgement, character, wisdom? What it really gets you is some theory that almost invariably overanalyzes problems without real action – and the techniques have a real poor track record of meaningful change.

    So I’ll answer your question with a question. Are your overly impressed with these Ivy League blowhards like Rutherford? Or like me, do you find them incredibly naive? Frankly, I don’t think they have a clue about how the world works. They can manipulate the message, frame the issues, point fingers and the rubes follow.

    Aren’t you more impressed with the old dock worker who’s been around the block many a time, recognizes the bullshit when he sees it, has raised a good family while living within his means, and still managed somehow thru all the mess to keep his sense of humor?

    That’s why I like Palin.

    Sorry about the delay in answering your question.


  49. St. Paul, the author of most of the New Testament and 1st Century Witch Doctor, did the same. You going to diss him too giant?

    Ehhh, it ain’t the first century anymore, although I know it’s taking you some time to catch up. I thought the USA got witches out of its system after the Salem days, but perhaps not. Be that as it may, Palin can have her witch doctor so long as you’re open to everyone else’s practices. Thanks to Palin and Pastor Muthee, both inexperience and religious practice are now off the table as a Republican talking point.

    You remember the late, great William Buckley?

    The Godfather of modern conservatism is spinning in his grave right now concerning Sarah Palin. Quite frankly, you dishonor his name by including it in a defense of Governor Palin.

    As for your comparison of Ivy League blowhards to old dock workers, what utter nonsense. One size does not fit all. Perhaps you haven’t kept up with Harvard’s admission policies but it ain’t a school for “blue bloods” any more. I was a middle class (not rich) kid and I had friends there who were from hardscrabble backgrounds. There were also a fair share of conservatives. Honestly, I don’t know any dock workers but I’d bet dollars to donuts you’ll find liberal, “naive” folks on the dock who plan to vote for Obama.

    It is this failure to see shades of grey and variation that troubles me about your type of conservative. Even the Red Pill, with whom I usually disagree, but whose style I usually respect, took my criticism of Palin as a damnation of the entire working class and blew his top. I don’t get it.

    @ Rabbit, I haven’t studied the size of rabbit testicles to the extent that you have. But thanks anyway for the education. You worked hard on that teabagging metaphor but I kinda think it fell in the category of “too much information.”


  50. “R”

    As for your comparison of Ivy League blowhards to old dock workers, what utter nonsense. One size does not fit all.

    You don’t get that either…Rabbit will.

    So we can get the most obvious out of the way, I don’t believe Rabbit, me, nor anybody else of I’ve read on WordPress has told you to do anything but to believe and practice as you must. I not only subscribe to your demands, I encourage you to do so. I certainly won’t try to convince you otherwise.

    No matter your mockery of Christianity, which is typical of an overeducated, underachieving douche bag, it matters not. Of course, I only mentioned Paul but the practice held for all of the Apostles. So I guess you can include Peter and the Catholic Church to also be of the witch doctor variety. You’ll note at any Mass, priests still lay a hand on the head for forehead as a blessing for those not taking Communion – that’s just another form; that is, if you’ve ever seen the inside of a church or parish in your sophisticated world.

    What you fail to recognize Big R with your illustrious education is that Pharisees have come and gone for two millennia and will continue for some time. As to your patronizing approach, that is neither clever nor new, and just as Solomon explained in Ecclesiastes, to be expected. Cast your vote and follow your little god Obama.

    “Professing themselves wise, they’ve become fools…”

    It is this failure to see shades of grey and variation that troubles me about your type of conservative.

    The problem with your shade of grey Rutherford is that you stay there. You can’t even tell good from evil, right from wrong. The fact is, that you are on the wrong side of any issue of importance. As to your claim of tolerance, you’re ilk are the most intolerant of all and is personally evidenced by your immature insults of the formation of the basic tenets of Christianity.

    In your world of double standards, every man sets his own set of values which invariably leads to an amoral, dysfunctional windbag. Of course, if someone like Sarah Palin claims to be a follower of Christ, well now that can’t be tolerated and must be insulted. That’s puts you on par with say Rosie O’Donnell.

    And as far as your vaunted education, color me unimpressed, blue blood or not. Your threads are bland and boring – parroted from a million other libbie blogs. Chen is far more clever than you, provides some humor, and he doesn’t advertise his talent. You would do well to learn something from him.

    Finally, look at what Haaavard did for you…best I can read from your dismal blog, you’re an underemployed schmuck with a juvenile bent.

    What’s humorous is I could apply all the descriptors to “progressives” and you would maximize it. Humorless, insecure, a garden variety bigot of Christianity, and not terribly clever. And no matter what you express on your blog or how you vote, nothing changes that. Truth is Rutherford, you’re a goat with a bleak future no matter your politic. And you’re running out of time to correct your misguided thinking…


  51. OK, The big news this week is the McCain campaign “taking the gloves off” and doubling down on this whole Ayers controversy. I suppose once a team loses a couple of debates on the actual issues, and finds themselves down in the polls, the time comes for a little desperation.

    Makes a pretty good topic for the next thread, I think.


  52. Tex, I get the feeling you don’t know much about Pastor Muthee. He is no garden variety pastor and hardly a typical Christian. In the late 90’s he accused a woman in Kenya of being a witch, blamed her for her city’s high crime rate and then, with the help of a mob, drove her out of town. Of course, I imagine you’d find justification for such behavior in the fact that the town’s crime rate subsequently declined but I’m still more comfortable with good old fashioned law and order for controlling cities as opposed to fighting witchcraft. To say that someone who has concerns about Muthee is mocking religion in general is a stretch.

    Finally, returning to William F. Buckley for a moment, this is what the leader of the modern conservative movement had to say about John McCain:

    a remarkable human being… I don’t think that his name comes to mind automatically as somebody who over a period of years has addressed problems with fruitful thinking, let alone with consistent thinking.


  53. Rutherford,

    Man, you’re lame. Sarah Palin’s former pastor for 20 years Tim McGraw from a Pentecostal Church. Do you now have to resort to dredging up PuffHO and KKKos talking points to support your pitiful attempts? You’re even more pathetic than I realized. Here, let me go to some Klan site to find something juicy about Obama…

    So you know Mr. Haaavard educated:

    Here’s a direct quote via CNN (I’m sure you probably find that too right-wing for your impeccably libbie taste) what exactly what CNN said about her in the role of Governor of Alaska:

    [Palin has done little while in office to advance a social conservative agenda. She told The Associated Press in an interview in 2006 that she would not allow her personal beliefs to dictate public policy].

    Relax, here Christian voodoo will never reach your pagan parts!

    “I’ve honestly answered the questions on what my personal views are on things like abortion and a lot of controversial issues,” Palin told AP. “I won’t hesitate to answer those questions about what my personal views are, but I am not one to be out there preaching and forcing my views on anyone else. Palin said she would not seek to impose her religious views on others.”

    As a reminder, here’s your classic neo-pagan quote from a previous post.

    Ehhh, it ain’t the first century anymore, although I know it’s taking you some time to catch up.

    You’re going to pull a hamstring crawdadding backward after exposing your bigotry with another incredibly stupid comment. Stick by your guns, sport and admit you hate Christianity. Quit straddling the fence and be a good lib.

    You do realize as you like to quote Bill Buckley Rutherfraud, you would be loathed by Buckley as you are most people, don’t you?


  54. Tex, once again your grey matter has trouble interpreting anything in the grey zone. It is true that I am not a fan of organized religion but unlike you I am able to not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Can’t I respect religion and still object to radical Mormon sects promoting child rape? Can’t I respect religion and object to Catholic priests hitting on underage boys? Can’t I respect religion and raise some doubts about a pastor who believes in witches? C’mon Tex, try just a little bit of subtlety in your arguments. You don’t always need a sledgehammer.

    As for Buckley. LOL … I don’t doubt that he would have little use for me but by the same token, he would totally dismiss you for your graceless brute method of debate (and I say debate advisedly). For Buckley, language mattered and there was no place for ad hominem attacks devoid of any intellectual integrity.


  55. Being in medicine, I’ve noted on more than one occasion “R”, neuroscience apparently isn’t your bag. I think you watch too much network TV. When you attempt to speak of it, you sound like the metrosexual hoi polloi.

    “R”, you’re a wannabee ‘intellect’ steeped in religious bigotry, more specifically Christian bigotry, terribly ignorant of its basic precepts or tenets. It’s unbecoming to watch you now try and weasel your way out of looking the secular part; typical, but unbecoming.

    If you didn’t want to toss the baby, don’t slam the baby to begin with as you delve into your “gray” matter.

    I only used Buckley as an example. Don’t mistake I’m a true believer in all Buckley espoused. And never think there is only one approach to dealing with a liberal moron – sometimes you need a knife; sometimes you need the jackhammer. I prefer the latter, mainly cause it apparently confuses libs to treated in the same manner they treat others.

    Don’t know what Mr. Buckley would have thought of my approach, but he made it abundantly clear as attested to the quote from above what he thought of lackey Haaavard graduates following along the lines of lib faculty meme.


  56. What were you going to school for, again, Tex?


  57. MD…and you can’t imagine what I can done in “The Chamber” during a Gross Anatomy lecture.


  58. That’s what I figured.


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