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Obligatory Black Friday Stampede Death Post

December 2, 2008

I know I’m more than a few days late on this.  I apologize, but I’ve been a little busy with other stuff.  But hey, better late than never:

Having worked in retail for over a decade, and witnessing my share of craziness on Black Friday (years ago, I remember telling myself that I had lost hope in humanity the day I saw one sweet old lady shove another over a free clock radio), I figured that I better comment on this.  

I was getting my daily dose of talk radio the day after it happened, and as usual, there were quite a few opinions about who was to blame and questions about what would drive such madness, but there was something that I didn’t hear anyone point out.  That is, the notion that this wasn’t “stuff” that people were jockeying for.  This was money

Here’s the thing.  Assume for a second that you’re predisposed to buy a 50″ plasma TV.  You’re going to buy one.   Assume again that the regular cost is $1600.  So, if a local retailer is advertising that they can get this same TV for $800 if you’re one of the first people through the doors at 5 AM, you’re not racing for the TV.  You’re racing for the other $800. 

So, for the sake of making a point, imagine that your local bank put out an advertisement that said that they’re giving away stacks of cash, and you’ll get it if you’re one of the first people through the door.  Does anyone have any illusions about what kind of mob scene they’d have on their hands?  I don’t think so.  I would think that any rational person might even suggest that the bank make sure that they have police donning riot gear on hand.  Now, if the bank had no preparation, and in the chaos someone got trampled to death.  Does one blame the mob, or the stupid people at the bank? 

At what point does a “door buster” sale become as dangerous as yelling “FIRE” in a crowded theater? 

Now, I know that the “stacks of cash” may be an exaggeration of an example, and I’m sure that there are a certain number of shoppers out there that are more motivated by some bragging rights than pure greed, but the point is that there are certain precautions that these retailers need to take in the way of crowd control if they’re going to do this sort of thing.  There’s certainly no excuse for being taken by surprise, since I  watched it get a little worse year after year (at least from where I was sitting).

I know what you’re thinking.  Like “OK genius, what would YOU do to control the mob?”  And I’d naturally segue into what we did at our store, which actually worked quite well.  You see, instead of handling the customers in a chaotic reaction to a metaphorical dam-breaking (like obviously happened at this WalMart), we’d catch the customers as they came in the parking lot.  We’d have greeters out there early, meeting people as they came in.  We’d talk to them, ask what items they intended on purchasing, and gave them a voucher for those items.  And since we only had as many vouchers for each item as we had items, there was no risk of people fighting over them.  No voucher, no item.  Customers could take off, have breakfast, and come back and pick up their thing.  Does it ruin the “thrill” of chaotic holiday shopping?  Probably.  But, heck, no one died at least.

Anyway, one really has to wonder what the hell these employees at the WalMart must have been thinking to themselves as they saw the mob of a couple thousand people gather outside.  I’m guessing that, at some point, the management realized that they had gotten a little over their heads. But what did they do?  Because they obviously didn’t adequately prepare for what came barging down their doors, I’m inclined to blame WalMart for the tragedy (unlike the hosts of my local FM talk show).

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72 comments

  1. How do you like the lib spin on this one from MSNBC, you’re clown’s favorite channel? Where’s that lick lovin’ Rachel Maddow, flunkie from the failed Air America, blaming Bush for this one?

    Predominantly black neighborhood, black victims trampled to death, black female reporter, crowds acting like f*cking animals, and whose fault is it someone is stomped to death, while another loses her baby?

    Wal-Mart…

    So what do you leftist MSNBC shills propose we do when stores open up for sales? Have riot police in place? The cops would be sued from some liberal smuck (like Rutherford) for using their clubs on the animals. I guess it’s asking too much to act civilized? No, let’s make it another victimhood crime by evil corporate America.

    **spit**


  2. ↑↑↑↑

    😆

    It’s amazing what you can find when you are too lazy to proofread and you come back ready to rip the deviant’s responses. Make that…

    Schmuck. Not like Smucker’s Jelly.


  3. I hate Walmart. With that said it isn’t the fault of Walmart that out of over 2000 stores this one saw what it saw on friday.


  4. Maybe I made a mistake bringing the LGF dictionary over here, ’cause I could have sworn that you just *spit* on my blog. Tex, that ain’t cool!

    Anyway, lets just assume for a second that you’re right wrt categorizing the holiday shoppers as “animals” (and I’d pretty much be on the same page, considering what I’ve seen in years past). Would it make sense, from the retailer’s standpoint, to prepare for that? I mean, in my view, they can’t honestly take the position that they had no idea that there might be some issues.

    Also, there’s a slight difference between a “sale” and a black friday promotion where the first 20 people that burst through the door get to save 50% (or more). The latter creates a pretty ugly environment, as I tried to explain in the thread.

    And my intention is not, as you put it, to blame “evil corporate America”. It wasn’t the nature of corporate America that caused this, it was the specific actions (or lack thereof) of one management team. Again, we ran these same types of promotions, but we eventually figured out that we had to do more prepare the store for the chaos, or it would be ugly. These WalMart people failed in that regard.


  5. I saw the NY Post making a point of a couple of items that were available that day. The Samsung 50″ TV for $799 seems to fit the bill for your argument CZ.
    Oddly enough BestBuy had the same thing same price same opening and No stampedes


  6. And my intention is not, as you put it, to blame “evil corporate America”. It wasn’t the nature of corporate America that caused this, it was the specific actions (or lack thereof) of one management team.

    I doesn’t matter your intention. This is a perfect indicator, whether it be breaking into mailboxes or trampling people to death, your judgment about anything of substance is null.

    The management team is not to blame in the least as indicated by these “black friday sales” or “sales” or whatever you want to call them, that were held all over America at Wal-Mart, and nobody got trampled to death anywhere but this cesspool. These gorillas literally busted the doors getting in and nobody should be held accountable for anything but the assholes who rushed the door. All of them.

    I still don’t understand how you can put somebody like Sarah Palin under the microscope, dissect her every word, find fault in the most minor of grievances, and then be completely oblivious to the worst of behavior. It shows a complete lack of common sense and really juvenile decision principles.

    I’ve come to the conclusion, and knowing you’re not dumb, you must simply post the most outrageously stupid and opinionated shit you can dream up to start dialogue.


  7. Sorry to go O.T.

    Uh oh! It looks like the Dim’s patron saint of economics might be a liar, a fraud and crook like his old boss Slick and his new messiah! I don’t know if he’s an adulterer and serial rapist.

    http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/081203/business_us_citigroup_lawsuit.html

    Change we can believe in! 😉


  8. Predominantly black neighborhood…

    Tex, please substantiate with a citation. The page I found on Valley Stream, while perhaps not authoritative says that 71% of Valley Stream is white, roughly 8% black. Furthermore, when it comes to Long Island malls (I lived on Long Island much of my childhood), there is no such thing as neighborhoods. Folks come from all around to shop at these things. But perhaps all that is beside the point … what does the racial makeup have to do with your point?

    Also, Tex you must be suffering from short-term-memory loss. If you recall, in a previous thread you and I were in violent agreement on this issue. It even puts the Who concert tragedy of 1979 in a different light for me. The result of that concert if I’m not mistaken was a change in concert seating arrangements that would discourage stampedes. This is the kind of precautionary stuff that Chen advocates but it ignores the insane behavior of the crowd.

    What it comes down to is store owners can no longer assume that their patrons are rational, thinking, caring human beings. The assumption now has to be that sales items are like shark bait and the shoppers are the sharks.

    I guess while we’re spreading the blame around, we must blame the media (heck they’re responsible for everything aren’t they?) for hyping Black Friday to death.


  9. I don’t know. I think I agree with Chen on this one. These black Friday deals are not even really sales. They are publicity stunts. Selling a limited amount of goods grossly below market value will create this kind of situation. This stuff happens every year. Sometimes people get hurt, sometimes they don’t. This time someone died.

    Tex, I ask you this. If you took the kids to a World Series baseball game and, to your surprise, once in the park it was first come first serve for the good seats, wouldn’t you hold the park accountable to at least some extent? Even if you had no inclination of getting the good seats, the crowd behind you would be forcing your mad dash.

    I once did something really stupid. I was at a concert (a band called Primus) and I followed my buddies all the way to the stage. The pushing was unreal. It got to the point where people were falling and getting trampled. I’m 6’2, 240 (at the time a weight lifting maniac) and I was being knocked around like a rag doll. I saw a tiny woman go down and know that she was somewhere close to my by now out of control size 12’s. God knows what happened to the poor thing. There was no way I could do anything for her. If I tried I probably would have been stomped to death. All I know, for 15 exhausting minutes, I fought like a Roman soldier for my life to get out of that insane horde. At one point I was using my elbow as a club. In some cases, you lose your choice making ability in a mob. It’s either kill or be killed.

    I don’t know the details of those idiots at Wal-Mart. And I am by no means saying some of those people aren’t responsible. But I guarantee others you see running through those doors don’t necessarily have any other choice. Are they to blame for taking part in the sale itself? Hell…maybe. But if that’s the case, so is Wal-Mart.


  10. “Predominantly black neighborhood, black victims trampled to death, black female reporter, crowds acting like f*cking animals, and whose fault is it someone is stomped to death, while another loses her baby?”

    “These gorillas…”

    I knew you were a racist! I was just waiting for it to come out. I tried to trick you into admitting it on an earlier thread by posting racist filth and seeing if you’d agree, but I think I ended up pouring it on a little too heavily.

    Hooray!


  11. The sale itself wasn’t rational.


  12. No idea why politics were brought up in this discussion or Sarah Palin’s name who is so last November. Oh, wait I know why and will leave it at that…idiot alert!

    ChenZhen, you are right that it was management’s fault and ties in with Alfie’s observation at Best Buy. My understanding is that there was no line control at this Walmart. I don’t normally shop on Black Friday but attempted to at a Best Buy a number of years ago. The store made people stand in single file and handled out cards for the limited sale items they had which you needed to buy the item. That’s all that was needed to be done to stop anyone rushing the store when it opened.

    I don’t worry about the crowds these days myself and celebrated Buy Nothing Day on Black Friday…

    Tomorrow take a break on Black Friday and buy nothing!

    Ideas and Revolution – If you’re not outraged you’re not reading this blog


  13. Rutheford and Mike,

    I know how pious you both are, and you’ll both just have to forgive me for pointing out the obvious making me the racist, but have you happened to view the video? And I am so sorry for my racism. I’ll try to remember to wear my Klan hood next time I vote for J.C. Watts…

    http://www.digitalalchemy.tv/2008/11/wal-mart-stampede-kills-worker-video.html

    You’re right Rutherford. I apologize. 80% black.

    And Mike, you’re so fucking lame and politically correct, for you to call me racist, I’ll wear it like a badge of honor. Consider it payback for your thought policing of the Chamber.


  14. Rabbit,

    You’ll have to wait for our moderator to release my last post to view how ignorant Mike is, so I’ll answer your question now.

    Tex, I ask you this. If you took the kids to a World Series baseball game and, to your surprise, once in the park it was first come first serve for the good seats, wouldn’t you hold the park accountable to at least some extent? Even if you had no inclination of getting the good seats, the crowd behind you would be forcing your mad dash.

    Let me answer your question with another question. Let’s say every ballpark in the nation made their games first come, first serve. But only at one ballpark did people get trampled to death out of the 2,000 ballparks that allowed visitors to seat themselves? At every other park, not only is no one hurt, but everyone enjoys the game?

    Now is that an admission that the one ballpark was responsible for poor decision making, or an admission that maybe that maybe the rational and make up of the fans just a little different?

    Why is when we win a world championship near where I live, the biggest commotion is the glitter from the parade? But say, in Boston or Philadelphia the commotion comes from turning over cars, busting windows, and throwing rocks at the police?


  15. Oh, while I’m here, I have to take issue with one of Chen’s analogies. Yelling fire in a crowded theater plays on people’s fears and instincts for self-preservation. People trample each other in fear for their life. A bunch of idiots stampeding into a store is fueled by one thing and one thing only … GREED. No one is going to die if they don’t get that 35% discount.

    The analogy only works if we assume that humans are brain dead animals functioning on the lowest instinct levels where desire, fear, hunger and any other earthly stimulus rightfully provokes the worst of responses.

    Chen, I don’t mean to be coming down on you. I see your point and I fully understand you have the business background to support it but you do so at the risk of letting people off the hook for bad behavior.


  16. I really don’t think blame has anything to do with this. It’s pretty clear to me that the morons pressing against the doors are too blame. The size of the door should have no bearing on whether or not you act a fool.

    With that said, it seems prudent that Wal-mart should install some sort of safety system in order to avoid these sorts of stampedes, since they seem to be pretty predictable.

    The prudence of crowd control has nothing to do with who is to actually blame for the stampede.

    And, and Tex, I already know how ignorant I am.


  17. Hey Mike,

    And, and Tex, I already know how ignorant I am.

    Well, well. We finally found something we can agree on. But I mistakenly didn’t include the words major league loser while I was at it.

    Why don’t you stick around to watch the video I posted dickhead when Chen releases it so you can choke on your pathetic attempt at labeling me a racist?


  18. The analogy only works if we assume that humans are brain dead animals functioning on the lowest instinct levels where desire, fear, hunger and any other earthly stimulus rightfully provokes the worst of responses.

    You mean like our current Dimocratic leadership and their last win?


  19. This stuff has happened many times before. I bet I can find examples of it everywhere. People have been killed before over this kind of stuff too. If only I wasn’t so lazy…I would actually back the stuff I say with evidence. Do you honestly think nobody else in the country, for that matter your state, wasn’t hurt in a crowd of over aggressive shoppers?


  20. Do you honestly think nobody else in the country, for that matter your state, wasn’t hurt in a crowd of over aggressive shoppers?

    Well, I’m literally located in the heart of Wal-Mart country, know for a fact we had the same sales promotions here, read the local paper every day, and I’ll be damned if I read of one injury, much less some poor worker being stomped to death at any store.

    Maybe where you’re from, that’s common. But where I’m from, we probably would have killed the SOBs that stomped the assholes to death after reviewing of the video (contrary to Lame Mikes’s assertion from above, we don’t discriminate between races when it concerns marauding assholes).


  21. 😆

    Strike that. Substitute poor man for assholes (i.e. stomped the poor man to death)

    I’m fired up now. I’ll take you all on!


  22. A piece of advice that I just learned the hard way…

    Don’t debate the same conversation while toggling on three different blogs concurrently. You’ll more than likely accidently refer to the victim as an asshole. Oops…


  23. Oh wait, let me guess…the video shows a bunch of black people?

    Q.E.D., Tex…Q.E.D.!


  24. No, Q.E.F. Mike. Your tense and philosophical usage are wrong, as usual.

    However, not bad for a architectural assistant…


  25. Well, you see the joke is…aw, fuck it.

    Also, it would aN architectural assistant.


  26. Tex is always going all Tex on us. Are rumbles legal? I want to see what this whole Texas posse thing is all about….Lets meet in Iowa. Call the boys up. After the rumble we’ll join forces and take it out on those fem-bots in Iowa. Hell…why stop there?…Minnesota too! Sans-Thor of course.

    p.s….by no means am I condoning violence…I’m referring to a “dance off”.


  27. OK, this moderation thing is beginning to cramp our style around here. Tex’s comment only had one link. I think I’m going to send the WordPress people a recommendation, that would provide a feature that would allow regulars to post whatever they want without getting tied up in my filter. That way the spam thing can still stop the crap, and I don’t have to worry about our usual debates getting derailed.

    Anyway, rabbit-

    Sans-Thor of course.

    Yea. LOL Stay the fuck away from Thor, if you know what’s good for ya.


  28. Well, you see the joke is…aw, fuck it.

    Also, it would aN architectural assistant.

    😆 Well, you know how racist proofing gets when they get all excited to expose an assistant to the architect’s flagrant and timely lack of expertise.


  29. Rabbit,

    Do you have a pair of cowboy boots in size 12? Big ol’ boy, aren’t you? You’ll fit right in with us Rangers. Hell, now I do have to be nice to you. You’ll whip my ass for mouthing off.

    Man, I might have to throw in the 30-06 to bring a shoe size like that down. Get me a couple of those Michigan monkey wrenches and a Detroit Lions 0-16 ballcap and we can go to work on Rutherford and Chen.


  30. You’re right Rutherford. I apologize. 80% black.

    Tex, you’re not focusing and as a result you’re doing yourself a disservice. I said “8% black” not 80. Also if you’d bothered to carefully look at the videos you linked to you would have noticed that the second one (full of black people) was posted in 2007 (June 9, 2007 to be exact)!! I knew from the moment the video began that it was not the recent incident because the doors to the store were intact. The incident we’re debating here involved the doors being knocked down.

    You’re smarter than this. Now answer the question. What does the racial makeup of the crowd have to do with anything? Unlike Mike, I haven’t called you a racist primarily because if you were, it would invalidate any comment you’ve ever made in the Chamber. I AM asking you how does race play into this incident? This business of mob scenes not taking place in your neck of the woods certainly smacks of a certain elitism on your part. Folks are more refined where you come from?

    This tragic incident is not an occasion to generalize about any regions or groups. It’s a sad commentary on the human race as a whole.


  31. You mean like our current Dimocratic leadership and their last win?

    Tex, other than to try to get under folks skin, what the heck are you talking about? Comparing a crazed mob at Walmart to Democrats is a stretch, even for you.


  32. “R”,

    I will be more than happy to add more proof if the need arises (if you will make it worth my time) if you doubt its premise. I didn’t reference a second video, unless I’m mistaken. And the reference about 80% wasn’t from your quote. It was from noticing that about 4 in 5 were black crossing thru the broken door, I don’t give a damn the demographics you looked up because it’s meaningless in this regard.

    It isn’t me that does a disservice (to basic math). But you’ve still missed the point which I will explain in a minute.

    Second, I was referring to this comment you made (again), part bad humor, part truth:

    The analogy only works if we assume that humans are brain dead animals functioning on the lowest instinct levels where desire, fear, hunger and any other earthly stimulus rightfully provokes the worst of responses.

    Like Obama voters that are brain dead animals functioning on the lowest instinct levels where desire, fear, hunger provoke the worst of responses…as your type pander for votes every two years. You probably have convinced yourself into thinking those ‘marauders’ on Long Island were pulling the lever for McCain in that make believe world you live in.

    Folks are more refined where you come from?

    Sure, if you want to call it refined. I would call it civilized – we don’t trample people to death around here in the rush to buy big screen TVs “R”.

    Since you want to bait me on the race thing, and it’s almost offensive that you think I’m so dumb to not take notice, let me mention a few mob scenes of the top of my head (Rodney King and O.J., virtually any professional sport’s parade on the East Coast, Freaknik, Crown Heights Riot, Tawana Brawley). Do you want me to go on? Do you see pattern here? You pretend, because you don’t have the intestinal fortitude to admit the truth because you’re a politically correct lackey, too afraid to admit to a blatant double standard of behavior. It might cost you a vote and offend your equally sanctimonious blog buddies. But you won’t miss a beat to diss Jerry Falwell for his opinions, making one false accusation after another, never making mention that Al Sharpton has actually gotten people killed. It might ruin your ‘fine’ reputation amongst the pure leftist internet folks.

    Now let me be perfectly clear about my point from above you’re so interested in to use as ammunition. My complaint was about MSNBC was playing the victimization card, which they do on a nightly basis, never making mention the real culprits. And you hypocritical shitheads bathe in it each night, patting yourself on the back for your good graces. Race, sexual orientation, etc…doesn’t matter. But it’s you assholes causing the division in this country. Here’s an example. Everytime I hear about Matthew Shepard and all of us religious zealots you like to dream up, as if somehow two thugs represent Christianity, I never a hear a damn thing about Jesse Dirkhizing. Why wasn’t that publicized? Oh, I see. It doesn’t fit the liberal model.

    Let me tell you something Rutherford. I’ve been all over this country. The enlightened eastcoast type? That crowd is the biggest bunch of bigots (racial and otherwise) I’ve ever met. Everytime I attended a professional event, from Maine to Philadelphia, it was as white as it gets, as straight as it gets, and I heard racial epithets worse than anything I’ve ever heard where I grew up.

    You’re type is as phony as the day is long and peddle in the worst type of bigotry. Last night, I’d had about enough of your cowardly bullshit and lying. So you feel free to give me your sanctimonious horseshit anytime you want because I know better.

    While my oldest daughter is down actually helping poor blacks in New Orleans try to recover from the wreck with her ‘racist’ parent’s blessing, while my other daughter cares for poor children (mostly minority) two nights a week at a mend crisis center, you wonderful fellows are paying lip service about someone else’s weaknesses and sitting on their ass blogging about their piety.


  33. Oh, you help black people? Jeez, why didn’t you say something! That changes everything.

    But you’re right, black people riot all the time. That’s why they need so much help!

    Maybe you can help me. I have a big batch of skin whitening cream. Can you give me an address to send it to? I’m having a dickens of a time handing it out in front of the liquor store.


  34. O.J. Mike,

    I’ve stated in the past, you’re the only one on this board so ignorant, I generally skip your posts, but since you’re accusing me of being racist, I’ll address you this one last time.

    Please explain to me, the racist, why I have in the past voted for J.C. Watts and a black mayor (twice), one of my favorite journalists is black that I posted just two days ago on this board before this discussion started (Thomas Sowell), think Clarence Thomas along with Antonin Scalia the two best minds on the SCOTUS, and until I started medical school, donated my tithe to BOND:

    http://www.bondinfo.org/

    of which I will be more than happy to prove to a punk like you, if you in turn will donate $1,000.00 to BOND when proven wrong?

    Will you take that bet O.J.? I will personally see if I can get Rev. Peterson to write to you personally on this board for everyone to see with the understanding you will be making a donation to his organization in the name of General Chen? How about it big mouth?

    And I’d like to know what a critic like you does besides whine about your own moral platitudes, look for any excuse to find racism under the bed, pander for votes every two years, and perform like you’re some saint? And I stereotype? You asshole, are the worst form of racial bigot and not worth a shit.

    So you let me know when you’ll take my bet maggot. Because there’s nothing I love more than to watch a punk like you get his comeuppance.


  35. Guys like Mike kill me, always zealously accusing other people as being racist. I bet he gets all weird and clammed up when he’s around black people. And he just can’t stop it either. Always replaying his conversations in his head, riddled with guilt and questioning his ability to just get along.

    Guys like Mike will never realize that racism is so much more complex then snippets and quips. Mike, I bet you never pondered the phenomenon of the guy who was busting out racist jokes one day and the next day is the first guy to put his life on the line for another race.

    Guys like Mike always have a ton of multicultural relationships that are incredibly superficial. But he’s strung way too tight to ever let his guard down for the real deal.

    Mike, your reading this right now, aren’t you. And, deep down, you know everything I say about you is so true….


  36. Rabbit-I have two responses. I’ll post them all.

    a.) DR-
    Why are you such a racist?

    b.)DR-
    I’d appreciate you not exposing my soul on the internet without my prior approval. It’s embarrassing.

    But no, I dislike those people, too. You can only understand my comment if you understand my special relationship with Tex. We both hate one another. Literally. He expresses his hate by calling me “a[sic] architectural assistant”; I express it by calling him a racist.

    Really, my comment is just an underhanded attempt to hurt his feelings.


  37. a. “Such” implies more racist then the normal racist, so I guess I object to that. But, yeah, sometimes I can be racist. I think an aspect of black culture is fucked up. Is that a racist thing to say? Hell, maybe I’m not a racist. I’m sure any opinion I will have here again will be tarnished now as you fake asses give H.J.s to one another while deluding yourselves on how progressive you are. I don’t really care if you think me to be null and void because I don’t fit your paradigm…’least sometimes I do shit with black people…for whatever that’s worth. Believe it or not, I actually don’t think about race that much. I wouldn’t be able to function!

    b. sorry


  38. I’m trying to think of when I’m at my most racist and it hit me like a ton of bricks. Nobody is more racist then me when it comes to selecting a movie theater. I’ll say it right now, I can’t fucking stand black people in the movies. I don’t keep that a secret either.


  39. “I can be racist. I think an aspect of black culture is fucked up. Is that a racist thing to say?”

    Man, I really hope not. No one is immune from acting a fool, and no one should be immune from getting called out on it.

    And you’re not null and void. I dig your style.

    One last thing. I haven’t gotten my hand job yet. Frankly, I feel slighted. I’m sure Chen will be around shortly.


  40. Since we’re all sharing, I really fucking hate certain strains of rap music.

    When in the history of music have singers spent so much fucking time only singing about how awesome they are? Fucking get over it. These rappers are fucking over-grown children, and anyone who takes them seriously is essentially reveling in the fact that they’re giving the middle finger to being an upstanding adult. O-TAY! It’s like what would happen if Peter Pan actually existed.

    There’s this youtube video of a guy punching another guy at a rap contest (whatever they’re called.) Seriously? You got so upset about a poetry contest that you sucker punched a guy in a school gymnasium? Are you twelve?


  41. Haven’t seen the youtube vid, but I would put money the freestyle “diss” was gang related.


  42. The people who trampled the guy are responsible for his death.

    Walmart is liable for his death.

    End of story.


  43. Hey Mikey,

    I’d be real careful about correcting any typos, grammatical or spelling. I think I have made it abundantly clear in the past for the world to read here at THE CHAMBER, you are very, very easy target. I think the last time you were still struggling with interlocutor as an insult? As I recall and am too lazy to look up, you were about three characters off and barely literate.

    ———–

    You keep avoiding my question. Um, you going to take that bet I offered from above Saint Michael? Or are you just going to avoid it like you normally do? Kind of like you avoided the classroom when test time rolled around in a younger day?

    ————

    You are absolutely wrong about me hating you Mike. It pleases me you hate me because that is my intent. But to hate someone, you have to have some relationship, some feeling in the matter at hand.

    See Mike, when I discuss issues with folks here, there is some measure of respect, even if I disdain them. Rutherford and I are diametrically opposed on any issue of substance besides our kids. But I feel obligated to answer him. When Rabbit and Alfie ask me a question, I feel responsible to answer them because I like them and generally respect their opinion. Marc, Chen, Sensico, Ugly Kay, and a whole host of leftist drivel types – there’s a measure of respect in my response, no matter how vile, because I am acknowledging their existence.

    You Mike are like a fly at the family picnic. Do I hate the fly when I smash him for crawling on my hamburger? No, he’s just a nuisance. Oh, I might make a figure of general speech like, “I hate flies” to my lovely wife, but I don’t really hate the flies. I might question why they are here on earth.

    See, you Mike are not worthy of my hate. You’re not worthy of anything. If you didn’t dump a turd in my direction, or call me a racist, wasting my time having to defend myself, or come in with your typical juvenile quip which I generally ignore, I wouldn’t know you were here.

    And unless you die, you’re more worthless than the fly at the family picnic because at least the birds can eat them for some nutritional value. You Mike have no purpose.


  44. Hey Tex, you forgot to add me to your list.


  45. Sage-

    Walmart is liable for his death.

    Speaking of that: Family of NY man trampled by shoppers sue Wal-Mart

    The dude was 6’5″, 270!:

    Authorities suspect that because he was as big as an NFL lineman, Damour was placed at the entrance of the store to assist with crowd control.

    Yea, like “Go open the door, Jdimytai. We’ll hang back here”.


  46. Tex, Sage. Sage, Tex.

    But you’ve met already. 😉


  47. That’s why Walmart is liable, Chen.

    But the people who trampled the guy are still responsible for his death.

    It’s the difference between a criminal action and a civil action.


  48. “As I recall and am too lazy to look up, you were about three characters off and barely literate.”

    No, I just subbed an ‘e’ for an ‘o.’

    “And I’d like to know what a critic like you does besides whine about your own moral platitudes, look for any excuse to find racism under the bed, pander for votes every two years, and perform like you’re some saint? And I stereotype? You asshole, are the worst form of racial bigot and not worth a shit.”

    I also post in the comment section of blogs. I am very deep and profound and people take me very seriously. So seriously, in fact, that they want to compare dick sizes by seeing who donates more money to charity and who likes black people more.

    Big man, Tex!


  49. Chen-
    I’m with DesertSage on this one. The store should have implemented basic safety precautions, but that doesn’t imply that in the absence of basic safety precautions it’s okay to trample people.


  50. “You Mike are like a fly at the family picnic”

    So when the fly comes around you say “Hey, fly! What’s your deal! I bet I’m cooler and a wwwaaayyy better person than you! Let’s make a bet…”

    O-TAY!


  51. Mike-

    I’m with DesertSage on this one. The store should have implemented basic safety precautions, but that doesn’t imply that in the absence of basic safety precautions it’s okay to trample people

    Well, sure. But who would you prosecute? The people that actually stepped on him? The people who were pushing from behind? All of the above? That’s a lot of indictments.


  52. Chen-
    “Well, sure. But who would you prosecute? The people that actually stepped on him? The people who were pushing from behind? All of the above? That’s a lot of indictments.”

    I really have no idea. I have no knowledge of the particularities of the law, so I can’t say. Nonetheless, it seems clear to me that you shouldn’t avoid holding people responsible simply because it’s hard to do.


  53. I guess this brings me back to the yelling “FIRE” comparison. If someone got trampled in a crowded theater, do you prosecute the crowd, or the dude that yelled it?

    And with that, I add the “law” tag to this thread.

    /I forgot


  54. Mike,

    I realize you’re not capable of understanding the consequences of using loaded words, added to the fact you are gutless, but I don’t want to compare dick sizes or charitable donations. I want you to make a donation to Rev. Peterson’s organization in “THE CHAMBER’s” name to show your sacred, pious nature.

    But I did enjoy your comment about your profoundness. I thought your dick comparison was about as profound as you are capable. Mighty impressive!


  55. Well Tex, I have to say that, from where I’m sitting, choosing the word “gorillas” to describe the makeup of the crowd was a bit curious, even if you’d previously referred to them as “animals”. Stampeding animals usually take the form of cattle, horses, wildebeests or elephants, after all. But gorillas?


  56. You probably have convinced yourself into thinking those ‘marauders’ on Long Island were pulling the lever for McCain in that make believe world you live in.

    Tex, Holy cow is your conservative paranoia going into overdrive or what? Yes, assuming that the Walmart stampede consisted of McCain voters would not only put me in a make-believe world, it would make me certifiable. What connection does trampling people in pursuit of a sale have with being a conservative? You’ve gone positively batty. In fact, I would expect people THAT hungry for a discount to more likely be liberals. Wealthy fat cat conservatives don’t need to trample over each other at Walmart. Hell, they don’t even shop at Walmart. 🙂

    Now onto the race thing. For the record, I didn’t call you a racist. Surely you know that if you comment on the Walmart incident and use the identification of “black” three or four times, then it’s perfectly valid for me to ask you what your logic is. You don’t want to bring up the OJ celebrants with me. One of the disadvantages to your not taking the time to read my blog is you depend too much on speculation when you could actually read about what I think. I wrote about the OJ verdict and what it might say about the black community. Although, on a certain level, I understood many black’s reaction to the OJ verdict, it was still an embarrassment. Hardly African-American’s finest hour. But you wouldn’t know what I thought about it since it is easier for you to fill in the blanks about me based on your assumptions.

    It’s one thing to say that rap music leaves much to be desired (I’ve heard maybe two rap songs that I felt had artistic merit)but it’s quite another to suggest or imply that blacks lack impulse control, are prone to rioting, etc. It’s not a matter of political correctness. It’s just plain ignorant and knowing you to be an intelligent (and rather ambitious, if years in corp America and now med school is any judge) person, I have to assume you cannot possibly be making such ludicrous generalizations.


  57. I guess this brings me back to the yelling “FIRE” comparison. If someone got trampled in a crowded theater, do you prosecute the crowd, or the dude that yelled it?

    Chen see my comment earlier in the thread on your fire analogy.


  58. I realize you’re not capable of understanding the consequences of using loaded words

    Well Tex, I have to say that, from where I’m sitting, choosing the word “gorillas” to describe the makeup of the crowd was a bit curious

    Tex, a newsflash, for black folk, “gorillas” is pretty “loaded”. It may be your choice of stampeding animal, but it goes down real bad after a sentence replete with several references to blacks. I’m just sayin’.


  59. R-

    Chen see my comment earlier in the thread on your fire analogy.

    What, you don’t think that greed can provoke the worst of responses?

    Here’s a thought experiment. Go to, say, a football game with a bag of $100 bills. At halftime, toss it all up in the air in the concourse, and see if someone doesn’t get trampled to death.

    Better yet, announce that you’re going to do it first.


  60. Chen, they won’t be chasing the $100 dollar bills because they are in fear for their lives, they will be chasing them out of greed.

    The outcome is the same, but the cause is different.
    Yelling fire in a theater causes people to panic for their lives. These people at Walmart weren’t panicking for their lives, it was more of a mob mentality born of greed. And Walmart didn’t put the employee in a dangerous position out of maliciousness, like someone who yells fire in a theater would be putting people….they put him there out of stupidity.


  61. Tex-
    I flaunt neither my charitable donations nor my actions as evidence of anything to anyone, especially strangers on the internet. Doing so is socially, if not morally, perverse.

    You need a lesson in two things. First, sarcasm. Second, humility.


  62. Sage-

    And Walmart didn’t put the employee in a dangerous position out of maliciousness, like someone who yells fire in a theater would be putting people….they put him there out of stupidity.

    A fair point, however I might argue that my hypothetical football game, the, um, philanthropist would have done it out of maliciousness, knowing the chaos that would ensue. So I guess the question is where flirting with human nature vis a vis greed crosses from the realm of irresponsible, over to the reckless, and finally over to the downright malicious.

    Anyway, the comparison was made only to illustrate that the ugliness of what would transpire is, in both cases, predictable (regardless of intent). And I’m no lawyer, but could not adequately preparing for what would be a predictable result be viewed as criminially negligent?


  63. Oh, blow it out your ass Mike.

    I didn’t post that charitable contribution to an inner city organization to brag about myself. I posted it to show you were a hypocritical phony and a gutless farce and to prove to everyone else you didn’t have a clue about accusation. And if you think sarcasm is calling someone racist, you’re even dumber than I thought.

    “R”,

    I’m aware of the newflash. If you want to think “Gorilla” was a racial reference on my behalf, be my guest. It actually was a colorless reference to “gorillas” breaking the door down. I’ll try to measure my words around the sensitivity police here at the Chamber.

    I actually had typed Conan the Barbarian before changing it to Gorilla. Unfortunately when I’m around the liberal sensitivity police and mediators looking to score political points, I never gave thought that Gorilla would be construed as racist.


  64. Hey, I see the Christian hating bigot up there going by the name the Revolting Puke and missed it. How’s that Freedom from Religion party going Puke? And I see your still blog pimping.

    No idea why politics were brought up in this discussion or Sarah Palin’s name who is so last November. Oh, wait I know why and will leave it at that…idiot alert!

    ChenZhen, you are right that it was management’s fault and ties in with Alfie’s observation at Best Buy.

    Here’s perfect proof that the responsibility lies with the people and not Wal-Mart. Anytime this idiot has an opinion, you’re always safe taking the opposite view as being right.

    Here’s what I hope happens. I hope Wal-Mart shuts the doors, leaves, shoots the bird at the locals, and leaves a burning hole in the ground matching the rest of the area. Kind of like Buffalo.


  65. Oh, one other thing Pawn. When you go on idiot alert, try and remember being aN assistant at the local library setting up the printers ain’t quite an admission of genius.


  66. I never gave thought that Gorilla would be construed as racist.

    Thanks for the clarification, ‘Nuff said.

    @DesertSage, thanks for your comment, you captured exactly what I was trying to convey.


  67. Oh Tex, there was one other item in the thread that I wanted to address:

    The enlightened eastcoast type? That crowd is the biggest bunch of bigots (racial and otherwise) I’ve ever met.

    I have to approach this empirically because I’ve never lived in the South. I’ve only visited on business. My guess is however that there is a “genuineness” (if that’s a word) in the South not found in the North. Because racism was so pronounced at one time, so OUT THERE, there remains an openness in the South that you know where you stand. You know if your race is coming into play ‘cos for the most part Southerners don’t pull punches.

    There are lots of hypocrites among us Yankees whether it be fake liberals or liberals who bend so overboard that they end up being condescending to the folks for whom they think they are advocating. If we’re going to get into generalizations, I would guess that Southerners are more racially honest than Northerners.


  68. “Anyway, the comparison was made only to illustrate that the ugliness of what would transpire is, in both cases, predictable (regardless of intent). And I’m no lawyer, but could not adequately preparing for what would be a predictable result be viewed as criminially negligent?”

    Thanks to the work of the liberals, it is nearly impossible for companies to prepare for these travesties.

    I think that, in reality, the unions should be held responsible for this tragedy. If Walmart required ALL of its workers to work at least 120 hours a week, rather than the 40 the unions insist on having, the store would be able to be constantly open. In addition, the maintenance worker wouldn’t have been trampled if there were masses of WalMart workers defending him.

    The anti-Second Amendment activists are also to blame, although not as much as the unions are. If workers were allowed to carry guns into the store, then they would have kept the swine from breaking into the store.

    You’re not going to get rid of capitalists, Liberals. Deal with it.

    “Also, there’s a slight difference between a “sale” and a black friday promotion where the first 20 people that burst through the door get to save 50% (or more). The latter creates a pretty ugly environment, as I tried to explain in the thread.”

    Are you seriously advocating taking away the companies’ freedom to run their own business how they’d like?


  69. OS-

    Are you seriously advocating taking away the companies’ freedom to run their own business how they’d like?

    Did I say that? No. I’m simply saying that they should be accountable for what happens when they run it that way.

    But since you opened up the question, it could be something that lawmakers look at, based on this example. We don’t operate in a pure free market system; there are obviously regulations on all kinds of things that restrict certain business practices (something that I’m intimately familiar with, being in the auto industry), so its not as if companies have limitless freedom to begin with. It’s worth a debate, at least.


  70. “Did I say that? No. I’m simply saying that they should be accountable for what happens when they run it that way.”

    You didn’t say it, but you were implying that WalMart was the problem, and that something had to be done. Sorry if I’m misconstruing you.

    “But since you opened up the question, it could be something that lawmakers look at, based on this example. We don’t operate in a pure free market system; there are obviously regulations on all kinds of things that restrict certain business practices (something that I’m intimately familiar with, being in the auto industry), so its not as if companies have limitless freedom to begin with. It’s worth a debate, at least.”

    It is true that there has never been a completely de-regulated society on the planet; however, I think that it could be possible. Government intervention is only necessary if the businesses decide to deliver physical harm to their workers. The wages and the management of the company should be completely up to the companies.

    The only way we can have a completely de-regulated society, however, is if we return to the gold standard. That was one thing I liked about Ron Paul; the man had a fundamental understanding of the free market, outside of trade policy.


  71. Chen you’re killing me


  72. I assume you’re referring to the snow, Alfie?



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